华工象棋论坛

标题: 我对拖刀计（不是我的原创）的改局常出错！ [打印本页]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 07:50
标题: 我对拖刀计（不是我的原创）的改局常出错！
本帖最后由 sdndsx 于 2015-11-20 08:12 编辑

我对拖刀计（不是我的原创）的改局常出错！
各位老师：我水平有限，不要笑话我！我永远都是排局界的小学生，水平不咋地！
郑重介绍一下，zff9876 亦师亦友。四将排局给我留下深刻印象。
zff9876 老师的拖刀计排局，我喜欢！
先发 zff9876 老师的拖刀计排局，再发我与zff9876 老师的交流。
不为别的，只为排局创作繁荣。

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 07:52
51回合胜

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]《拖刀计》[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9961699939994733994227439999999972829941309999021871624845442824[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 07:57
本帖最后由 sdndsx 于 2015-11-18 09:01 编辑

我直觉是：红方的双相没有走动，冒然改局如下。
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9961999959999933994247439999999972029941309999821871622444455748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
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[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:01
zff9876 老师回帖：
改成下图这样，虽然多一相，但第43回合黑方可以上将，异途同归，其变着也挺有趣：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]《拖刀计》[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9961479939999933994227439999999971829941309999021872624845442824[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:03
zff9876 老师回帖：
这样感觉更好。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title][/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6061999959999921552722239999999972829999319999621871025748442524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:07
zff9876 老师回帖：
因为局中其实存在着红方的八路炮马配合倒打黑车解杀的棋，红方是否有冷着胜的可能性还很难说？！

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9961999959999914993712439999999918999999309999999971995748454424[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
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[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

正确！

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:09
我的回帖：
我的局面黑方杀力不足，请您包涵！您的非连将速胜正确。
看来去掉红相的想法暂时实现不了了，有趣的是：黑方杀力不足，却需要添加两个红相弥补，有点意思。
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9961879959996914991237999999994399999999309999991899715748454424[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]1218575818587179[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:11
我的回帖：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8561699959998721202722999999322318629999513099827271024857442524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:13
zff9876 老师回帖：
我又稍改了一下，回合数一样，但是这样少一相，不知还有没有冷着胜的可能？
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title][/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8561479949999921202217322399999918829930519999620272716944382524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:16
我的回帖：
这局50回合，敬您校验一下。
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9961999959999933994247439999999971029941309999821862722444455748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:17
我的回帖：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5521999959999961512247439999999971628299309999231802722444255748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:20
zff9876 老师回帖：
不管冗子，先追求着数了，请您帮忙看下这局59回合能成立吗，谢谢
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5561999959999921204722535246329971628230419999231872025748442524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:21
我的回帖：
这样可去掉红原位中兵，58回合。不知能否成立。
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5021999959999961112227314399999971108230329999621802722444255748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:24
我的回帖：
54回合，成立否。请 zff9876 老师检验。谢谢！
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5141999959999961452247504399999971029999309999821862722444255748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:26
zff9876 老师回帖：
这局棋，红方首着可走车八退七吃掉黑车，演变下去好像红方先手，有优势，可非连照胜。
改成下图这样减少点回合数，似乎54回合连照胜能成立，不知对不对？
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6061999959999921114722239999999971628299319999101872025748443524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:28
我的回帖：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5021879959996961112227314399999971108230329999621802722444255748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:29
zff9876 老师回帖：
好像红方还有冷着胜的可能，不知对不对？双方变化有些复杂，我只列其中的一路变化供您参考:
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5061879959996921112722433199999971628230329999101872025748442524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]43333231273725355051624133237232111857585158485859490212373231322224[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0_17]未完待走！[/DhtmlXQ_comment0_17]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:31
我的回帖：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5021879959996961112227239999999971108230419999621802722444355748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:33
zff9876 老师回帖：
这局似乎也有冷着胜，先脱个帽，有待研究：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5061879959996921112722239999999971628230419999101872025748443524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]2747413150516241473772321118[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]30414737354522324535321235452133[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_6_2]3545223245352113[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_6_2]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 08:49
本帖最后由 sdndsx 于 2015-11-18 09:05 编辑

zff9876 老师的拖刀计很不错！我喜欢！能与 zff9876 老师探讨排局，是我的荣幸！切磋还在继续！有一些新的想法，还没有贴出来。我想集中大家的智慧，共同提高。
先透露一点我的拙见：
1 我感觉18楼的开头几回合，比较惊险，我希望保留。
2 最好是红方无冗子，首着不吃子，回合数越多越好，黑方杀力足够。
3 我有一个想法，把黑方的29位车向右平移至90位。

渴盼华工网老师们的大作。谢谢！

作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-18 11:18
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5161999959999900252722239999999971628299409999661872025748444524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-18 12:10
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4261999959999933552722239999999971628299319999661872025748443524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34975%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-18 13:42
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6321999959999953572752234230504371628299519999391972026748443524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result] [/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34975%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-18 15:54
谢谢您！高原红老师。您的排局功底，我除了敬佩，还是敬佩！我试解：
21楼56回合。22楼57回合。23楼不得了！竟然达到62回合！精彩！超赞！
高原红老师：21楼可以这样，增加1个回合。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]5161999959999900252722239999995071628299309999661872025748444524[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]NoName[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34975%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 湖艓 时间: 2015-11-19 00:10
本帖最后由湖艓于 2015-11-19 01:43 编辑

不加红车即可局面也很干净
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9921999959999961993247439999999971628299309999231802722444255748[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hychess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hychess.com/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D369643%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9921999959999961992227549999999971628299309999720902392444354868[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[/DhtmlXQ]

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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作者: 湖艓 时间: 2015-11-19 13:07
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-19 16:33

湖艓发表于 2015-11-19 13:07

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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-19 17:15
本帖最后由高原红于 2015-11-20 00:07 编辑

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作者: 湖艓 时间: 2015-11-20 00:56

高原红发表于 2015-11-19 17:15
[

可惜有半冗子去掉相少一回合杀力应该足够吧？
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-20 01:16
本帖最后由高原红于 2015-11-20 01:21 编辑

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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-20 01:38
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-20 02:03
本帖最后由高原红于 2015-11-20 02:36 编辑

[[DhtmlXQ][DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_title]拖刀计80回合胜 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-20 02:43
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作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-20 07:59
本帖最后由 sdndsx 于 2015-11-20 08:17 编辑

高原红胡艓两位老师！您的改进提高，有质的突破，真是太精彩了！我由衷地敬佩！谢谢您对我发（原局不是我的）的本帖的关注和支持！

！

作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-21 12:35
本帖最后由高原红于 2015-11-21 12:47 编辑

我喜欢这一形也没有冗子！
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-21 13:34
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作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-21 14:59
本帖最后由 sdndsx 于 2015-11-21 15:17 编辑

高原红发表于 2015-11-21 13:34

谢谢您！高原红老师！

我特别喜欢红方无冗子的局面！

我的改局也是想着这样做的。只是水平差，做不到，常出错。

作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-21 15:05
本帖最后由 sdndsx 于 2015-11-21 15:16 编辑

16楼很惊险!

1 红炮平五！
2 车八进一吃黑马，黑车吃红车，41回合速胜。

高原红老师：您的改进提高，产生了质的创新！因为拖刀计不是我的原创，但我喜欢您贴出的局面！为了排局繁荣，为了华工繁荣，尽心尽力。我点赞！

作者: 湖艓 时间: 2015-11-21 16:46
本帖最后由湖艓于 2015-11-21 16:58 编辑

整合一下不过这样边车不能动了
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-24 15:54
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作者: 高原红 时间: 2015-11-24 16:05
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作者: sdndsx 时间: 2015-11-25 10:34
给高原红胡艓两位老师点赞！有质的突破！九路红车没动。

欢迎光临华工象棋论坛 (http://www.hgchess.com/BBS/)