《炮兵残局探秘》部分棋局再讨论

天宇浪人

欢迎大家提出意见和建议！

zbz719

天宇浪人 发表于 2016-3-3 16:27
第3页图三增加一枚黑炮，着法增加3回合，我觉得是值得的：

1，可否把增加的黑炮换做黑马？
2，可否把黑将退后一步？

天宇浪人

zbz719 发表于 2016-3-4 10:26
1，可否把增加的黑炮换做黑马？
2，可否把黑将退后一步？

保柱兄好！

请问这两点修改的目的是什么？

古婺

哦噢噢噢噢

天宇浪人

呵呵，古婺兄这个妙！

古婺

进兵杀，有漏洞，要修改下

zbz719

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999999993361237181809941999999323099424099519948999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.dpxq.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.dpxq.com/hldcg/search/mini.asp[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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zbz719

楼上有误，有速胜

凌云子

天宇浪人 发表于 2016-2-29 10:23
全书开篇第一局（第2页），其本身就是从实战提炼出来的，改成下图可增加回合数：

http://www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum ... ;tid=35180#lastpost

第7局结尾能和吧？

天宇浪人

凌云子 发表于 2016-3-4 20:43
http://www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=35180#lastpost

第7局结尾能和吧？

查pai的残局库，这个是和局。

凌云子

嗯嗯，收到！我也感觉能和！

zbz719

俊杰的棋还真不好改，顾了头顾不了尾，研究半天，晕头转向了
睡觉了，明天来看

zbz719

不成立，重新修改

zbz719

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999938399999993361237181809941999999323064424070519947999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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应为和棋。

zbz719

应该这样红可胜。还有提高空间。[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999938399999993361237181809941999999323082424070519947999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26pid%3D266233%26page%3D2%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

zbz719

待整理，彻底晕了：）

天宇浪人

按照古婺兄的思路，对“雷池莫越”局进行了修改，不知是否成立？回合数相对少了点，看看能否再改进？
[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_movelist]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[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]nnnnnn593948nnnnnn8362nn718170nn4132nnnn313060494051nnnn84nnnnnn[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment69]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]www.lshh.net[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123

这样需要几个回合？
[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]626184858343405043138575131075651050657570607565607065755060758570808575604075654050657550607585607085867050867650607686607086877050877750607778[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_2]7787607087887050887850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_2][DhtmlXQ_comment36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

天宇浪人

yjr123 发表于 2016-3-7 10:48
这样需要几个回合？

这样是不是殊途同归？（另外不好意思余兄，刚刚不小心在你的回帖中点了个“反对”，也不知道怎么消去）
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]626184858343405043138575131075651050657570607565607065755060758570808575604075654050657550607585607085867050867650607686607086877050877750607778604078684050687850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_2]7787607087887050887850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.dpxq.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.dpxq.com/hldcg/search/mini.asp[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]6261848583434050431385751310756510506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979405079697080697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_2]7787607087887050887850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_3]687850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_3]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

天宇浪人

嗯，看来此局后半部分的着法应以余老师所拟的为准，谢谢！
现在再来看看开头部分的布子、着法还有提高的空间吗？

yjr123

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]62618485834340504313857513105040104075654050[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_36_2]7787607087887050887850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_36_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_3]75651050657570607565607065755060758570808575604075654050657550607585607085867050867650607686607086877050877750607778[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_3]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

天宇浪人

嗯，看来精确的走法应该是余老师指出的，再次感谢！
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]626184858343405043138575131050401040756540506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979708079694050697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_3]756510506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979708079694050697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.dpxq.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.dpxq.com/hldcg/search/mini.asp[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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zbz719

厉害！佩服一下！修改此局的难点在于保留原局红炮收掉黑卒的精彩招法的同时给开局加个好头！

双仕困马是个好主意！平炮中路打一步车细腻之极，硬是争得一先，颇得法，令人赞赏！
至此此局应该很完美了，如果再要锦上添花，感觉可以把红炮先置于黑底线，然后加一点弃兵引离等手段将红炮翻出，然后再除车打入，最后演一场捉卒好戏！

zbz719

类如这样（没细考，只是一个思路）：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999995061997181704241539999313060494051329985999957[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.dpxq.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.dpxq.com/hldcg/search/mini.asp[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123

聨吟客 发表于 2016-3-7 19:36
這樣是否速勝

速胜正确

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]626184858343405043498575485775655948655539385556383756664959666770606768605068583738[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_8_3]756510506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979708079694050697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_8_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_5_2]43138575131050401040756540506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979708079694050697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_5_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_16_5]56465951[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_16_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_7]656649596667706067686050685859895868898668588626586826286869282969792979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]　!![/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_4]50404959405059565040373840505650[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_6]5646494650404640[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_8]665659565040373840505650[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_8]
[DhtmlXQ_move_10_25_9]28296979483979692969[/DhtmlXQ_move_10_25_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11]!![/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]!![/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_10]592958682928686948396959285859495851[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_10]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

古婺

此局修改非常不容易，我尝试了很多种方案，红双士困马的类似方案也试过，感觉还没有突破原局的高度，伤脑筋啊。炮在进底线之前， 如果留兵，要防止进兵双炮杀，或炮压将头的杀法，还有炮平二路进兵再进炮的杀法，这些在修改的过程中都要考虑到的，

667

你喊点，我也点了反对，不知道怎么撤销