千古谜局精解之最新成果！

象棋天使

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-23 21:53
只要106 樓走法(包括黑方各種變著)紅能和局就可以了

老話一句,12回合 兵四平五,黑方的變化相對較少

对嘛。支持一下！

大征西

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-14 07:30

再说一下：106楼之走法其实是 真黑胜！根本和不了！
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[DhtmlXQ_owner]大征西[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]大鸿雁，古典四大名局之一[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_40]詮注本說接走下去弈成和局但未列出走法[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_40]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_37_1]2322467634443536[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_37_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_47]不變和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_47]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_40_2]46763343403043333040334340304333[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_40_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_55]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_37]還有這樣和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_37]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_34_3]4649242345462333304033324636324249453435454951414941424140416547[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_34_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_34_4]3040242345353444353623334645383945353949363733323738323135156547151144411141476541450725[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_34_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_42]||詮注本認為可和但未||走完[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_42_6]584838484942[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_42_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_49]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_49]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_39_7]34244252242852512858[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_39_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_39]這樣應簡明較好[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_39]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_40_10]4535242846363323[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_40_10]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_40_8]4676333242525141[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_40_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_43]||紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_43]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_40_9]464933324252516145356547[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_40_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_45]||紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_43]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_43]紅優[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_43]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_41_11]5161[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_41_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_41]複雜[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_41]簡明[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_41]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_42_5]4979333242525161[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_42_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_43]||此時仍可這樣[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_50]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_50]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_44_12]49443343425218585251[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_44_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_48]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_48]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_46_13]423218483536433332424849[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_46_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_13_48_14]58483848354551414546072546564333[/DhtmlXQ_move_13_48_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_34]感覺不是最好的選擇[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_34]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_15]62520414525614245646415130312423313223333242347446497414453514184948334342521848584838485251[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_42] 和[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_42]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_30_16]7279142479496547453547653545654745354765584838484941[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_30_16]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_42_17]4636334340305141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_42_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_45]紅優可勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47]不變和局[/DhtmlXQ_comment47]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_18]30312423313223333242342458482420[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_36_18]
[DhtmlXQ_move_18_42_19]45352420[/DhtmlXQ_move_18_42_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_41]紅炮再沉底皆不難走[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_41]
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大征西

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-23 21:22

149楼：这样，红怎么和？
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]：[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_9_1]30507242344446364434[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_9_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_14_2]441430505848323141425040[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_14_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]……亦和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]炮7平8……[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_3]5051343051412434697971617972343372743332744449395848615141513040[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_3]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment5]仍平兵較好[/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]这样呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
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大征西

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-23 21:53
只要106 樓走法(包括黑方各種變著)紅能和局就可以了

老話一句,12回合 兵四平五,黑方的變化相對較少

明确一下：106楼其实并没有穷尽黑方的所有重大变招，…否则 何以有 千古谜局精解之问世？！……

大征西

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-24 12:55

  
再接149楼： 第十回合 黑10.将4进1！…红又怎么和？

大征西

如果您要坚持 和棋结论，同样也要拿出 和棋之着法让人检验才行！ 不要只要求别人给你着法！。。。

大征西

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-25 02:38

换着了，真是不慢！不过，这样，也是 黑胜！。。。
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_14_2]441430505848323141425040[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_14_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]……亦和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]炮7平8……[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment11]這樣較好[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
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zhaodi

聨吟客 发表于 2017-8-25 11:52
補充

而且目前棋壇只有你一人認為此局黑勝,眾多排棋家古譜詮注者與討論者們都認為和局

呵呵 真理往往在少数人手里！同时真理不是一种铸币，现成地摆在那儿，可以拿来藏在衣袋里。


就是说，真理不是一种铸币，现成地摆在那儿，可以拿来藏在衣袋里。

但我可说，1楼第22回合红如走相三退一是黑胜。有没有反驳的？

zhaodi

直白的说，大征西蒋兄认为他是少数人，真理就在他那边，并且他的署名的表达的意思是：真理不可以拿出来。所以，大家都说和棋他说黑胜，你要招法，他就是不拿出来。

呵呵，玩笑。

我后面说的是，我认为1楼的第22回合红如果走相三退一，就是黑胜，这个结论是真理。

大征西

明确一下：红22.兵三平二 一变，这个变化 黑必胜！
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]：[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]……亦和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]炮7平8……[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]仍平兵較好[/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_16]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_20]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_20]？软着[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]正！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_26]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]红须变着，否则犯规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_36]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_33]这样，红违棋规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]黑胜定！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_28]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_22]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]红必须变着，否则违规[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment34]
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zhaodi

大征西 发表于 2017-8-26 09:33
明确一下：红22.兵三平二 一变，这个变化 黑必胜！

第11回合，红兵三平四，黑为何将4进1？直接卒4进1就将死红了！
第14回合红兵六平五如何犯规？
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[DhtmlXQ_event]竹香斋象戏谱[/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_round]三集[/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_date]0000-00-00[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]6[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
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[DhtmlXQ_hits]2[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
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[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]大征西[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]413143333141334341314333314133434131[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]黑要杀（卒4进1）[/DhtmlXQ_comment1][DhtmlXQ_comment0]||红将[/DhtmlXQ_comment0][DhtmlXQ_comment2]红闲[/DhtmlXQ_comment2][DhtmlXQ_comment3]黑闲[/DhtmlXQ_comment3][DhtmlXQ_comment4]红将||还原。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4][DhtmlXQ_comment8]红一将一闲[/DhtmlXQ_comment8][DhtmlXQ_comment9]黑一杀一闲||和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D51990%26page%3D6%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

大征西

zhaodi 发表于 2017-8-26 10:17
第11回合，红兵三平四，黑为何将4进1？直接卒4进1就将死红了！
第14回合红兵六平五如何犯规？

第十一回合 红兵三平四，黑应11.卒4进1 即黑胜也！
第十四回合 红兵六平五 虽暂时不违规，但续走下去黑仍可胜！请见下一楼！。。。
  
  

大征西

大征西 发表于 2017-8-26 09:33
明确一下：红22.兵三平二 一变，这个变化 黑必胜！

修正一下：
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[DhtmlXQ_editdate]2017-8-27 10:29:51[/DhtmlXQ_editdate]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_31_15]33323132[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_31_15]
[DhtmlXQ_move_14_27_16]3332697944457970454470303222413144343034[/DhtmlXQ_move_14_27_16]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_17]443412323432384849395859[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_17]
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[DhtmlXQ_class]象棋棋谱大全-古谱残局[/DhtmlXQ_class]
[DhtmlXQ_event]竹香斋象戏谱[/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_round]三集[/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_date]0000-00-00[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]6[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]陆水翔[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]15[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]12644810[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]大征西[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]大征西[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]：[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]……亦和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]炮7平8……[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]仍平兵較好[/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_16]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_20]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_20]？软着[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]正！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_26]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]红须变着，否则犯规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_36]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_33]这样，红违棋规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]黑胜定！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_28]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_36]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29]红须变着，否则违规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_32]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_27]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_29]不变作和[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]正[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_30]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_30]
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[/DhtmlXQ]

zhaodi

大征西 发表于 2017-8-27 10:42
修正一下：

蒋兄用的什么规则？怎么和我们大家的不一样啊？我认为炮进退不犯规。

就算按你的规则，第15回合红需变招，为何要走兵四平三？走相七退九不好吗？如果落相违规了，再走炮进退。是否你的规则规定，只要红有杀棋就是违规，必须变到黑胜的着法上去？

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_adddate]2017-8-26 9:27:13[/DhtmlXQ_adddate]
[DhtmlXQ_editdate]2017-8-27 10:29:51[/DhtmlXQ_editdate]
[DhtmlXQ_title]鸿雁惊寒（最新成果）！2！！[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_3]5051343051412434697971617972343372743332744449395848615141513040[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_4]4041233341513343[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_5]6959545950405989373889885848495938398889[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_6]695971613637654737383444597943537959534359794353[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_6]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_11_11]254737385444405043536959534350514342596971616961425251524454584849593839[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_11_11]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_12]69595343505143425989716151504252[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_12]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_13]61513839[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_14]31413343413143333141334341314333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_14]
[DhtmlXQ_move_14_27_16]3332697944457970454470303222413144343034[/DhtmlXQ_move_14_27_16]
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[DhtmlXQ_class]象棋棋谱大全-古谱残局[/DhtmlXQ_class]
[DhtmlXQ_event]竹香斋象戏谱[/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_round]三集[/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_date]0000-00-00[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]6[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]陆水翔[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]15[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]12644810[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]大征西[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]大征西[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]：[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]……亦和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]炮7平8……[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]仍平兵較好[/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_16]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_20]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_20]？软着[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]正！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_26]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]红须变着，否则犯规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_36]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_33]这样，红违棋规！[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]黑胜定！[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_28]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_23]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]黑胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_36]黑胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_27]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_29]不变作和[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]正[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
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大征西

必须说明：第13回合红退炮或退相，都是违反11
新规！不能以一个违规顶替另一个违规就认为是不违规，这是什么逻辑？这是 为了和棋而和棋 的逻辑！…第十三回合退炮或退相都是违规，不变作负！都是黑胜

zhaodi

大征西 发表于 2017-8-27 21:11
必须说明：第13回合红退炮或退相，都是违反11
新规！不能以一个违规顶替另一个违规就认为是不违规，这是什 ...

动炮或动相都是违反11新规？

请说明违反的是哪条哪款？具体规定原文如何说的？

大征西

zhaodi 发表于 2017-8-27 11:07
蒋兄用的什么规则？怎么和我们大家的不一样啊？我认为炮进退不犯规。

就算按你的规则，第15回合红需变 ...

赵兄用的又是什么规则？我认为进退炮或进退相都是违规！而且红方不能以一个违规顶替另一个违规就算是合规而规避犯规！再者，第十五回合红变着，只能走兵四平三才不违规，否则，红退炮或退相都是犯规！因此，只能走兵四平三。再有，红是长杀，…是否你的规则规定，红可以一个犯规来顶替另一个犯规就可以变到和棋的着法上去呢？！