华工象棋论坛

标题: 改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称。各位老师，请您指教。谢谢！ [打印本页]

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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-20 17:36
标题: 改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称。各位老师，请您指教。谢谢！


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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999932999999999999995199999999309999379999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35035%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: 无心恋    时间: 2015-12-20 21:28
红先胜
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999932999999999999995199999999309999379999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]3253304051414050537458487462[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-20 22:02
我排過很多對稱局,有些 先走者敗, 且不是一眼看穿的那種,呵呵呵............

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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-20 23:36
我有一局馬雙兵對稱局, 再讓沒見過的朋友們看看,呵呵呵呵呵...............
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-20 23:45
這個會如何
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[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-21 08:48


无心恋  聨吟客 两位老师的跟帖！

我坦白：原局是这样的：

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-21 09:20


吐槽一下——

问：原局已是经典。你为何还要改局？
答：因为我有幻想——那就是：子力相同，上下对称，红黑任选！
问：不可理喻！
答：我也觉得是这样的！
问：你想干什么？
答：我的想法是：这种体裁，正确的结论有 红先胜、红先和、红先负。不论哪一种结论，最起码做到了——红黑任选。
问：又能怎样？
答：即便是：错的离谱！作为一种特殊体裁（不是很多），能够引起创作热情就可。
问：你说的不对吧，之前已有经典：如 盲公顶棍，依样画葫芦 等等。
答：您说得对！毕竟创新的局面有待开发。就算是抛装引玉吧。

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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-21 12:09
問的人可請他來這裡,我貼一些我的對稱局給他看, 呵呵呵..............

前人有經典,今人與後人也是可以創作的

否則大家都不能創作江湖局了? 都不能學寫古詩詞了? 都不能練書法繪畫了?
有金庸與古龍 ,小說家都不能寫武俠小說了?

找他來,我與他辯論辯論,並貼我的對稱局給他看

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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-21 12:12
6樓是這樣嗎
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-21 12:22
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999959999945999999999999994199999999309999449999999999999948[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]45244423240323020322022122032102032402232443234243644263644363424362426141516182514182614151618251418261415161826243826351416342[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-21 12:26
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[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4939[/DhtmlXQ_movelist][DhtmlXQ_comment1]紅勝定[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-21 13:22

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-21 12:26

6楼的棋图的错误已更正了。谢谢您！

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作者: 一杯红酒    时间: 2015-12-21 15:42

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-21 12:22

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[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4564[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]红胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 一杯红酒    时间: 2015-12-21 15:52
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[DhtmlXQ_title]完全对称，双方都有机会，最少子排局(正和局)，可以红黑任选！[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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作者: 一杯红酒    时间: 2015-12-21 16:10
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作者: 石川铃华老湿    时间: 2015-12-21 17:31
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[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 石川铃华老湿    时间: 2015-12-21 17:33
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: 石川铃华老湿    时间: 2015-12-21 17:34
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[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-21 17:57
非常感谢 一杯红酒 和 石川铃华老湿 两位老师！

您的创意红黑任选，我喜欢！

6楼的局面还有没有改进的空间啊。渴盼老师们的的建议。通过添加 兵和卒 会有什么结论啊！

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作者: 1963    时间: 2015-12-21 20:51
这种双方2、3个子的对称局面多得很，一点意义也没有！

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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-21 21:31

1963 发表于 2015-12-21 20:51
这种双方2、3个子的对称局面多得很，一点意义也没有！

當然還要看走法的深淺度

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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-21 21:37
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[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]45644463[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]红胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment2]然後呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-22 08:25


谢谢 1963和聨吟客 两位老师 的关注！

学生我向老师们汇报一下我的思路。

1 着法难度不够，就没有太大的意义。我赞同！
2 着法难度不小，意义就大了。我就崇拜啦！
3 6楼的局面，正确结论是红先胜，着法难度就不算太小（走得不对，就会有 和棋或败局）。老师们解解看。
4 1楼的尝试，作为 思路，就算是 激发一下 创意吧。老师们，您得包涵！

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作者: 杨启忠    时间: 2015-12-22 10:31

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-21 21:37

陈兄，看看这样如何?(我在论坛上发过类似的马兵对马卒小局)

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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9945999959999999999999419999999999449999309999999999994899999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1]红胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]然後呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-22 11:45
感謝楊兄

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作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2015-12-22 12:07
嗯,15 樓趕不走卒,  和
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9947999959999999999999419999999999429999309999999999994899999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称 (正和)[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4735423435143413143313343352344252444234445234425244423444523442[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_1_13_2]56485341[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_13_2][DhtmlXQ_comment16]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-22 15:42


[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999953999999999999995199999999409999379999999999999948[/DhtmlXQ_binit][DhtmlXQ_title] 兵强马壮[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1]必须的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1][DhtmlXQ_comment3]精准！||||取胜唯一着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3][DhtmlXQ_comment4]顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]3040132140305141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_7]黑马被拴住，红方胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_7][DhtmlXQ_comment1_4]不够顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_4][DhtmlXQ_comment5]卧槽点位很重要。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5][DhtmlXQ_comment6]退将更糟。红方兵四平五，黑马被栓牢。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6][DhtmlXQ_comment7]好棋！||||控制住黑方的将和马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7][DhtmlXQ_comment8]此时只有黑卒可动。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8][DhtmlXQ_comment9]红帅趁机贴住黑马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9][DhtmlXQ_comment11]绝妙！||||红兵如果停留在九宫中心，黑将会有平中路捉卒弃马的机会。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11][DhtmlXQ_comment13]非常精准！||||取胜的关键着法。||||注意：||此时如果红兵还在宫心，黑将可以平中捉卒弃马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13][DhtmlXQ_comment15]好棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15][DhtmlXQ_comment17]精彩！||||红马到此处，取胜的关键。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17][DhtmlXQ_comment18]黑将平中会丢马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18][DhtmlXQ_comment21]正确。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21][DhtmlXQ_comment23]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3D%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-23 10:12


27楼还有不少的变化。而且有的还暗含单双步数。

这样结果如何。
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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949999944999999999999995199999999409999459999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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作者: 杨启忠    时间: 2015-12-23 12:15

sdndsx 发表于 2015-12-23 10:12
27楼还有不少的变化。而且有的还暗含单双步数。

这样结果如何。

供时老师参考：
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[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949999944999999999999995199999999409999459999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]442358684948687823117868113240305141453332113321112321422342[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]4030514145334939[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-24 17:31


谢谢 杨启忠 老师！

27楼的胜法很巧妙（跟帖探讨的不多）！但不是 红黑任选。我就想：不论是什么结论，正变也好，劣变也好，巧妙着法能够保留就好！

红黑任选，又能怎样？

我的幻想是：

1 先负后胜。这种排局的创作不是很多。
2 先和后胜。这种排局的创作也不是很多。
3 先胜后负（废话！普通连将胜排局就能做到）。但我认为：能做到可以 红黑任选，也是好的。

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作者: sdndsx    时间: 2015-12-29 09:46


27楼 走完2和回合的局面。红马八退七（劣变）就会出现单双步和棋。
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999913999999999999995199999999319999379999999999999948[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1]？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment1][DhtmlXQ_comment3]兵四平五 ||将4平5！和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3][DhtmlXQ_comment6]将4平五，也是和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26page%3D2%26extra%3D%23pid263550[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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