华工象棋论坛

标题: 炮打两狼关一路变化 [打印本页]

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-8-30 12:15
标题: 炮打两狼关一路变化
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[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]第9回合黑将4退1的变化，发现可和，不知是否正确。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]各著作认为炮四平八为红胜。炮四退八可和。||||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/9/9/9/9/3K3p1/9/9 b - - 0 14]和棋主变？红可胜[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/R8/5k3/9/9/9/9/9/9/4K4 b - - 0 33]各著作红胜着法[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18]该变各著作未提起，都是先走炮1进5将军。||||调换一下走子顺序。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]与先走炮1进5将军的区别。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_46]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_38]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_18]各著作走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_57]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_57]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_21]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]红方胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_21]网上搜索到的着法该着走车九退四。和[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_27]和。||||第11回合红改走车九平五，避免换子可胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_12]黑的另一路走法是先弃卒。变化复杂。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]黑车失红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: wolaikk 时间: 2018-9-17 18:29
黑将4退1的变着书上有的，只是续演着法不正确被扬弃。
网络时代早在2014年象棋残局帖吧就有人演绎过。
印象中朱鹤州在《长寿》还是啥杂志也演绎过，只是在兵五进一后立刻退将，次序似乎对演变没有什么影响。
退将后续走兵五进一，黑进炮将军，红炮可进一、进二、进三、进四都可以，但进五不行是劣变。
这个棋局由于“一将一捉”规则的限制，不能演绎将5平6后的变化，只能炮1平5弃炮演绎成牵制性和局。
看来这个棋局只能作为一般小局对待了。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-9-25 12:08
这局最新的诠注本基本上是诠为红胜的。第9回合的黑方应着很是关键。虽说几种走法可能会走成相同局面，这样结果就一样了。但红方下着应对略有不同，导致走成相同局面的想法只能一厢情愿。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-9-25 12:09
当时发这个贴时只是第一感觉可以和，未留意走成相同局面的情况。这几天继续拆解后，发现走子顺序对胜和有点关系。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-9-25 12:23
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1]各著作认为炮四平八为红胜。炮四退八可和。||||[FEN=9/3k5/4P4/9/9/9/9/9/4K1p2/9 b - - 0 25]暂诠为和局着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/9/9/9/9/3K3p1/9/9 b - - 0 14]和棋主变？红可胜[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/R8/5k3/9/9/9/9/9/9/4K4 b - - 0 33]各著作红胜着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/5k3/c4R3/5P3/9/3r5/9/7p1/4K4/9 b - - 1 17]杨明忠1988年版蕉谱红胜着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=1C7/2P2P3/4k4/4c4/9/9/4P4/7p1/4Rr3/4K4 w - - 3 6]蕉竹斋第6局，黑胜[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/R8/5k3/9/9/9/9/9/9/4K4 b - - 0 33]江湖棋局搜秘新版红胜[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]各走法很容易会走成相同局面A。这步棋红也可调换一下走子顺序，有变招的余地。||||[FEN=9/5k3/5r3/4P4/9/9/9/5R3/c4C1p1/4K4 b - - 19 17]朱鹤洲版本胜法1[/FEN]||||[FEN=5R3/4P4/5k2c/9/9/9/3C1r3/7p1/9/4K4 b - - 33 24]朱鹤洲版本胜法2[/FEN]||||[FEN=3k5/6R2/2P6/9/9/9/9/3r5/4K4/9 b - - 0 20]朱鹤洲版本胜法3[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18]该变各著作未提起，都是先走炮1进5将军。||||调换一下走子顺序。||||很多变化会走成相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]其它变着中，红可能不先进此兵。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/7p1/c2CK4/2r6 w - - 6 10]相同局面A[/FEN]||||下步红有进一，进二（三），进四的走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/3CP4/9/9/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_21][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面，和[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment2_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_24]相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/3C3p1/c1r1K4/9 w - - 8 11]相同局面，和[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment3_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_21]相同局面，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_20]与先走炮1进5将军的区别。||||注解合并：||[FEN=9/3k5/9/c3R4/9/4P4/2r6/7p1/3CK4/9 w - - 6 10]相同局面，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment5_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_46]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_18]各著作走法。||||红胜。||||直接用炮将军，再用车将红帅可退底。红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_19][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相似局面，黑将4退1，红兵进一多走了一回合[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment8_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_21]此时红可不走兵五进一，直接退车。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_22]在其它变着相似局面中（红兵已进一，红车在五0位）这步黑可走车3平4和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_23]相似局面中红帅是走进一。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_57]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_57]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_67]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_21]为了说明相似局面的差别。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment11_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/3r5 w - - 8 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment11_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_27]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_19]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_78]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_78]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_18]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_19]红胜。||||红通过这步棋有机会把车走到兵后。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_21]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_85]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_85]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_16]？红胜。||||使红下步有机会车五平六取胜。[FEN=3R5/9/3k5/c8/9/4P4/9/7p1/2rCK4/9 b - - 5 10]其它变化也同理。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment17_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_17]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_33]红方胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_47]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_63]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_16]这步棋和车3进8只是走子顺序不同，至下面就会就成相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_20]||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/7p1/c2CK4/2r6 w - - 6 10]相同局面A[/FEN]||||下步红有进一，进二（三），进四的走法。||||[FEN=4R4/9/3k5/9/9/4P4/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 5 10]其它变化中进二（三）走法，红帅可退底，红胜[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment19_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/3C3p1/c1r1K4/9 w - - 8 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment19_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_32]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_42]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_26]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_61]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_27]已和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_52]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_28]黑可动卒，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_21][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/3CP4/9/9/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面，和[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment25_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_21][FEN=4R4/9/3k5/9/9/4P4/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 5 10]相似局面[/FEN]||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment26_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/3r5 w - - 8 11]相同局面[/FEN]||||在相似局面中黑不能平四跟炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_23]这步棋若动炮，可能还要输。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_25]下步黑平中将军即和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_23]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_58]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_58]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_23]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_20]！[FEN=9/3k5/9/c3R4/9/4P4/2r6/7p1/3CK4/9 w - - 6 10]相同局面，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment29_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_20]红胜。未拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment30_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32_86]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment32_86]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_93]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment33_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_74]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment34_74]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_21]和。参阅其它变着中的相似局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_20]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_38]若兑车即和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_62]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_62]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_28]和。黑有优势。[/DhtmlXQ_comment37_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_12]？||||[FEN=3C5/4k4/9/9/9/9/9/3K5/9/9 b - - 0 15]杨明忠象棋古谱残局诠正大全中的和棋走法。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment38_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_17]先将再吃炮，以后有机会退炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40_24]||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/3R5/9/9/2r1P4/7p1/4K4/9 w - - 3 10]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment40_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41_21]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment41_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41_27]和。||||第11回合红改走车九平五，避免换子可胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment41_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_30]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_20]||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/3R5/9/9/2r1P4/7p1/4K4/9 w - - 3 10]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment44_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_21]第9回合红先将军后吃炮此时红可退炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_29]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45_51]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment45_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_12]黑的另一路走法是先弃卒。变化复杂。[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_17]黑车失红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47_9]败着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment47_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47_12]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment47_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_18]蕉竹斋7局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment48_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49_16]蕉竹斋8局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_18]蕉竹斋9局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_22]蕉竹斋10局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_1]||[FEN=4k4/5P3/4c4/9/9/9/9/9/4K4/9 w - - 0 20]各著作和棋着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=6P2/1P2P4/3k5/4c4/9/4C4/4P4/9/5p3/3pK4 w - - 11 12]李良剑和蒋权在1984年象棋第5期上诠为黑胜着法[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment52_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_3]妙手，保车解杀，是唯一可使这个古局下和的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment53_28]和||这路和法是王延学提出的新变化。[/DhtmlXQ_comment53_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment54_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment54_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment55_3]误[/DhtmlXQ_comment55_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment55_24]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment55_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_18]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_14]这是原谱的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_20]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_16]红方幸和||||改走炮5进2黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_20]以下走炮5平3把帅赶下再卒进中黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_18]同意兑换是软着。应走卒5平4黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_31]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_31]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_31]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: wolaikk 时间: 2018-9-26 15:53
5楼的9回合将5平6变还要细演一下，11回合车6平9是败着，下面2路变化错着都在18回合，退将变车二进三应改成进车打将后平边捉炮，即使允许一将一捉也是红胜；平卒变的18回合改走车二进二、进三、进四都是红胜。
11回合正确的应法是车6平7，与平9的区别是在黑卒被消灭时同时解决了高将和车不在9路给黑炮让出位置。若允许一将一捉，红主动变着退车守中炮，黑可借兑炮之机谋和。
其实，黑卒被吃后的局面云库已经可以查到了。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-10-4 21:28
这几天根据楼上提的意见再完善一下。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-10-11 19:40
感觉拆解还是有问题。黑求和没那么简单。

作者: dave7788 时间: 2018-10-18 19:29
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]3099999949999999994399994699999999999999429999992199999967999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]多结果[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4333[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]建议走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1][DhtmlXQ_comment0]《蕉竹斋》能够走出的这个局面在《湖涯集》“炮炸两狼关”变着中曾出现过。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_1]3036[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_1]《湖涯集》变着的走法，和局。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D53024%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-10-19 19:20
该局我还在拆解之中，各版本的黑卒和黑炮位置稍有差异。但该局我感觉应该是和局。

湖涯涯中的炮打两狼关最新的诠正着法好象也是红胜。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-10-23 22:11

dave7788 发表于 2018-10-18 19:29

刚想起阁下所著的著作中第二分局的主变和注解有点小问题。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
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[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4099999949999999993899459999999921999999329999999903996799999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]40432925484903064544254549590602443445354347353847673839595802526761313061413934[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_23_2]393558485212414212114232113132423538[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_23_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_3]0308383732314043292848492826454426464959080244344636434702073767076747673634[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_5_4]67574544292848492827443427374030[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_5_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_5]030840303242454421293839424144432922393222294948080232362922303522523545415143425258484967684241515045355859494868584838[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_5_21_6]525642415150413150514541[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_21_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_5_18_7]3646415143425242355542524656[/DhtmlXQ_move_5_18_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]红胜？||||在王首成白宏宽12年蕉谱版本中该变主变和注解着法为红胜。其实黑下步或其它回合应以将4退1和这步走将4退1会形成相同（似）的局面，还是可以成和。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/c8/9/4P4/9/6p2/3CK4/2r6 w - - 4 9]诠正着法1。[/FEN]||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/9/4P4/9/3C2p2/c3K4/2r6 w - - 6 10]诠正着法2。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3]诠正着法||||红下步应以兵五进一的话就会走成相同局面。红下步有无其它变招呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/c8/4P4/9/9/6p2/3CK4/2r6 b - - 5 10]相同局面。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_4]红变招只能走这步了，动炮意义不大。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_23]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_31]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_21]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_12]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_1]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_30] 红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_26]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_24]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_24]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: dave7788 时间: 2018-10-24 09:38
楼上是指2012年版《蕉竹斋》诠注本中的“炮打两狼关”，大约写于2009年，当时是以1990年3月蜀蓉版为蓝本进行编写。此局90版诠正为红胜，12版更正为和局。此局和局结论应该是正确的，可以说是一个很大的进步，但有的变化没有诠释精确，还有空间。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2018-12-25 06:56
本帖最后由 chouzhouyu 于 2019-1-11 15:33 编辑

刚买了白老师18年版本的蕉竹斋，发现该局为红胜。发一下我拆解的所有变化。有的变化是从7路卒中转移过来的。请大家探讨。

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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]分类:单车炮类||蕉谱114局炮打两狼关(二),涯谱27局炮炸两狼关,蕉谱79局炮打两狼关,渊谱350局七行五政.||||各著作认为炮四平八为红胜。炮四退八可和。||||最初未拆解完整。把7路卒的炮打两狼关的着法移过来后，发现第8回合红车五平六的变化很复杂。以前诠注本红第8回合走兵五进一，经我拆解是和棋。现暂删去。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]||在8路卒中古谱及各诠注本无该路变化。7路卒中蕉竹斋有该路变化。18年版白宏宽的蕉竹斋版有了此路变化。我原先拆解时，这路变化忽略。当把7路卒的变化移过来后，发现了这路变化，经初步拆解，感觉很复杂。黑方经常会走成一将一杀的局面，胜和待定。再深入拆解后，发现黑第9或13回合走炮1平5弃炮感觉有和棋的可能，黑通过弃炮换取子力上的快速，形成牵制性和棋。统一放到第13回合拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18]这路变化黑求和较难。||第13回合走炮1平5，基本上和这步走炮1平5差不多。其它走法经常遇见一将一捉局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]这步应招有些关键。||||以下黑弃炮后，红有无炮五平六拦黑车的棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]湖涯集中的炮打两狼关黑卒在7.7位,黑炮在9.3位(说明该步黑车平9路也不行)，此时红退车即胜.现在黑有杀棋,红来不及退车。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26]再次拆解时从这里重点开始。||||这样同第9回合走炮1平5的局面基本相似。||||这样黑方较容易掌握。||||备注：同第9回合走炮1平5还是有所区别，红有炮五平六拦黑车的棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31]新拆解诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38][FEN=3R5/9/4k4/9/9/9/2rCP4/5p3/9/4K4 w - - 7 13]与第9回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||该局面黑将在6路，黑车下步可进一，红暂无杀棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43]黑一将一杀。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44]这样不是一将一杀了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45]红走其它，黑车平中立和。||||红强变拆解结果黑优。[/DhtmlXQ_comment45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_47]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_36]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_41]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_31]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_53]红可一将一闲作和。||||？变招红有无风险。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_72]暂作和。||||走其它招红帅进中后平左黑很容易走成一将一杀的局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_72]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_84]亚规判和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_84]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_72]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_72]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_99]牵制和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_30]其它两路着法让红炮有平至六路的机会。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_75]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_75]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_59]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_59]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_67]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_54]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_56]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_34]黑车平7路与9路的区别。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_30]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_18]以下为最初拆解时的招法。再次拆解时从第13回合走炮1平5重点开始。||||再注：再次拆解时，发现现在弃炮，以下红有炮五平六拦黑车的棋，红胜？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_20]||dave7788：《蕉竹斋》能够走出的这个局面在《湖涯集》“炮炸两狼关”变着中曾出现过。||||下步建议走法为炮五平六。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_21]红胜？||||[FEN=3R5/2r6/4k4/3C5/9/9/4P4/6p2/9/4K4 b - - 2 11]与第13回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||与湖涯集中一样的局面了。至此直接作红胜了。下无着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_26][FEN=3R5/5k3/9/9/9/9/1r1CP4/5p3/9/4K4 w - - 11 19]与第13回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||主要是黑老将位置不同，黑将在6路，下步黑可走车进一居中将吃兵等。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_27]黑进一已来不及。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_43]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_55]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_43]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_15]以往诠注本着法，作为红胜。经我拆解为和。暂略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_1]||略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-1-4 18:40
本帖最后由 chouzhouyu 于 2019-1-11 15:34 编辑

最初拆解时未拆解完整就暂停了。现感觉第13回合炮1平5的变化有和棋的可能。但未十分确定。

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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]分类:单车炮类||蕉谱114局炮打两狼关(二),涯谱27局炮炸两狼关,蕉谱79局炮打两狼关,渊谱350局七行五政.||||各著作认为炮四平八为红胜。炮四退八可和。||||最初未拆解完整。把7路卒的炮打两狼关的着法移过来后，发现第8回合红车五平六的变化很复杂。以前诠注本红第8回合走兵五进一，经我拆解是和棋。现暂删去。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]||在8路卒中古谱及各诠注本无该路变化。7路卒中蕉竹斋有该路变化。18年版白宏宽的蕉竹斋版有了此路变化。我原先拆解时，这路变化忽略。当把7路卒的变化移过来后，发现了这路变化，经初步拆解，感觉很复杂。黑方经常会走成一将一杀的局面，胜和待定。再深入拆解后，发现黑第9或13回合走炮1平5弃炮感觉有和棋的可能，黑通过弃炮换取子力上的快速，形成牵制性和棋。统一放到第13回合拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18]这路变化黑求和较难。||第13回合走炮1平5，基本上和这步走炮1平5差不多。其它走法经常遇见一将一捉局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19]这步应招有些关键。||||以下黑弃炮后，红有无炮五平六拦黑车的棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]湖涯集中的炮打两狼关黑卒在7.7位,黑炮在9.3位(说明该步黑车平9路也不行)，此时红退车即胜.现在黑有杀棋,红来不及退车。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26]再次拆解时从这里重点开始。||||这样同第9回合走炮1平5的局面基本相似。||||这样黑方较容易掌握。||||备注：同第9回合走炮1平5还是有所区别，红有炮五平六拦黑车的棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31]新拆解诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38][FEN=3R5/9/4k4/9/9/9/2rCP4/5p3/9/4K4 w - - 7 13]与第9回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||该局面黑将在6路，黑车下步可进一，红暂无杀棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43]黑一将一杀。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44]这样不是一将一杀了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45]红走其它，黑车平中立和。||||红强变拆解结果黑优。[/DhtmlXQ_comment45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_47]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_36]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_41]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_31]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_53]红可一将一闲作和。||||？变招红有无风险。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_72]暂作和。||||走其它招红帅进中后平左黑很容易走成一将一杀的局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_72]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_84]亚规判和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_84]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_72]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_72]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_99]牵制和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_30]其它两路着法让红炮有平至六路的机会。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_75]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_75]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_59]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_59]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_67]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_54]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_56]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_34]黑车平7路与9路的区别。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_30]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_18]以下为最初拆解时的招法。再次拆解时从第13回合走炮1平5重点开始。||||再注：再次拆解时，发现现在弃炮，以下红有炮五平六拦黑车的棋，红胜？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_20]||dave7788：《蕉竹斋》能够走出的这个局面在《湖涯集》“炮炸两狼关”变着中曾出现过。||||下步建议走法为炮五平六。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_21]红胜？||||[FEN=3R5/2r6/4k4/3C5/9/9/4P4/6p2/9/4K4 b - - 2 11]与第13回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||与湖涯集中一样的局面了。至此直接作红胜了。下无着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_26][FEN=3R5/5k3/9/9/9/9/1r1CP4/5p3/9/4K4 w - - 11 19]与第13回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||主要是黑老将位置不同，黑将在6路，下步黑可走车进一居中将吃兵等。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_27]黑进一已来不及。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_43]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_55]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_43]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_15]以往诠注本着法，作为红胜。经我拆解为和。暂略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_1]||略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-1-5 12:20
1、炮四平八，将4进1
2、兵八平七，将4进1
3、车三平六，将4平5
4、兵三平四，车6退6（如将吃兵，红退车退炮将，无解）
5、车六平五，将5平4
6、炮八平六，车6退1<注1>
7、炮六退八，车6平3
8、兵五进一<注2>，车3进8<注3>
9、帅五进一，
形成下图：

　　此时该黑棋走。我见过的铨定此局为红胜的棋书，这里给出的走法是车3退1，红棋顺势车五平六，再兵五进一，确立胜势。我个人看法，黑棋这里走车3退1是败招，失利乃咎由自取。如果走将4退1，应该可以和棋。
接上图继续：
9、…………..…..，将4退1
10、兵五进一<注4>，炮1进5
11、炮六进一<注5>，车3退1
12、帅五进一，炮1退1
13、炮六平二<注6>，车3退1<注7>
14、帅五退一，车3平8
15、兵五进一，车8进1（也可直接退车）
16、帅五退一，车8退2
17、兵五进一，车8平5
18、帅五平四，车5平6
19、帅四平五，炮1退6
20、兵五进一，炮1平5
21、车五退一，将4退1
和棋

<注1>如卒4平5，红则帅五进一，车6退1，车五退三，车6平3，车五平九，车3进5，车九平六………我个人认为黑棋这一路变化有问题，属于黑劣，有可能输棋。时间有限没做进一步研究。如果我要选正解，黑棋此时应该车6退1。

<注2>此时红棋如走车五退三或者车五平六，个人认为也是和棋。

<注3>走车3退5或者将4退1，似乎还是和棋。

<注4>走车五退三，黑车3退3，兵五进一，车3平5，帅五平四，炮1退1，兵五平六车5平4．．．．．．．最后结果仍和棋，具体过程略。

<注5>炮进一是准备炮换卒简化局面，此外也可考虑炮六进二、进三、进四。

<注6>红棋此时局面上并没有优势，黑车炮卒已经围城，红抓紧时间炮换卒是正道。改走炮六进四，红棋会更艰苦一点。不过暂时没发现黑棋必胜之法。

<注7>先退车将，再吃炮，次序正确，直接打红炮，黑会输。

回复本楼含有高级字体2楼2014-09-12 17:04

猫老师之银河
yserene
明月居士15
再来看看退炮直打

　　前面讲了，“炮打两狼关”系列有个特点：不同的变局，红棋第一步要么只能平炮横打，要么只能退炮直打。不过这一局有点特殊，我认为此局面下，红棋退炮打车，仍然是和棋。

1、炮四退八，将4进1
2、兵四平五<注8>，将4进1
3、炮四平三，车2进1<注9>
4、车三平六，将4平5
5、车六退八，车2进8
6、车六退一，炮1平5
7、炮三平五，车2平4
8、帅五平六，炮5进5
9、前兵平六<注10>，炮5平1
10、兵五进一，炮1退6
11、兵五进一，炮1平7
12、兵五进一，将5平6
13、帅六平五，将6退1
14、兵五进一，炮7退1
15、兵六平五，炮7平5
16、兵五进一，将6进1
和棋

<注8>红车三平八吃黑车？这是个简单但诱人的大坑。

<注9>上一回合红车不能吃黑车，这一回合黑车也不能吃红车。如果车2平7？红炮三进八，黑棋跟着无论炮1平5还是炮1退1，都输定。

<注10>如改走后兵进一，则将5退1，兵五进一，卒8平7，兵五进一，卒7平6，兵三平四，卒6平5，兵五平六，卒5平4，帅六平五，卒4平5，帅五平六，炮5平9，帅六进一，炮9退6，兵六平五，和棋。

特意上象棋贴吧网查了一下资料。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-1-10 12:23
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]湖涯集炮炸两狼关炮1平5弃炮变化[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event]湖涯集象棋谱[/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_table][/DhtmlXQ_table]
[DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red]
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[DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam]
[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]6099999949999999995099114651629910999999309999995883993866999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]50103031112131326030324262525852304042321030525130385121403032423848425230502151507051617073[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_1]506051714847[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_2]50515251[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_21_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_3]8343484366674333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_21_4]3036[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_21_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_20_5]66563050564650404232438321268386[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_20_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_20_6]21234645424145442324303424294948[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_20_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]与蕉竹斋中的还是有所区别的。该局黑弃炮红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_23]居安思危,好棋.以下,黑卒必失,红车炮兵例胜黑车炮.[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_22]和。涯谱主变。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_21]红可胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_21]和。涯谱3变。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_27]红胜。涯谱3变又变着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_27]和。涯谱3变又变着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_27]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-1-10 19:29
刚拆解了一下，黑弃炮最后局面和湖涯集中的很相似。红还是可胜。

作者: dave7788 时间: 2019-1-11 19:02
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_2]77674333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_2]
[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]384803434843212646457767[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_3]42414333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_3][DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]2125[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]《蕉竹斋》“炮打两狼关”的远卒局已被近卒局取代，但从研究的角度出发，还是没有推敲透彻。||近卒局势均力敌；远卒局红方易走。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D53024%23lastpost[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: dave7788 时间: 2019-1-11 19:05
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]6099999949999931995099114651629910999999309964995804993866999989[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_author]白宏宽[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]当然，近卒局棋摊上已少见，远卒局无踪无影。棋摊上如图之局如果能够成和，倒是“炮打两狼关”中较好的一局。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D53024%23lastpost[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: dave7788 时间: 2019-1-11 20:48
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[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]384803434843212646457767[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_3]42414333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]21253037777837477868464568584333253533634241636941406959403045443565445465355453[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]《蕉竹斋》“炮打两狼关”的远卒局已被近卒局取代，但从研究的角度出发，还是没有推敲透彻。||近卒局势均力敌；远卒局红方易走。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D53024%23lastpost[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-1-11 21:02

dave7788 发表于 2019-1-11 19:02

拆解部分在14楼，是第13回合开始弃炮

作者: dave7788 时间: 2019-1-12 15:08
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]21253037777837477868464568584333253533634241636941406959403045443565445465355453[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1][DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_2]776743336757[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_2]
[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_3]42414333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6]可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6][DhtmlXQ_comment4_6]可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_6][DhtmlXQ_comment2_6]可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_5]21234333[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_5][DhtmlXQ_comment0]《蕉竹斋》“炮打两狼关”的远卒局已被近卒局取代，但从研究的角度出发，还是可以推敲一下。||近卒局势均力敌；远卒局红方虽易走，仍是和局。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D53024%26page%3D1%23pid313757[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-1-12 18:49
该局该路变化可和的话，那么湖涯集中的炮打两狼关是否也是和局。黑也可以选择这路变化。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-5-14 22:30
本帖最后由 chouzhouyu 于 2019-5-22 01:11 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关(二)(下集局55,总114)（诠为和棋）[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_149_24_150]282747480777464527284847282545442545475777794340794957584948405048445040323140424443585945484240434240503141[/DhtmlXQ_move_149_24_150]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_176_7_177]49480343[/DhtmlXQ_move_176_7_177]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_178_13_179]1080524280824241554543534548[/DhtmlXQ_move_178_13_179]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_180_7_181]49480343[/DhtmlXQ_move_180_7_181]
[DhtmlXQ_move_164_3_182]58880343495910601121313288824342626142436160384882854345464577675141676845446858[/DhtmlXQ_move_164_3_182]
[DhtmlXQ_move_164_3_183]6010383949480343[/DhtmlXQ_move_164_3_183]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]分类:单车炮类||蕉谱114局炮打两狼关(二),涯谱27局炮炸两狼关,蕉谱79局炮打两狼关,渊谱350局七行五政.||||[FEN=1C2R4/3k5/9/c1r6/3P5/9/9/9/4K2p1/9 w - - 10 13]诠正着法1[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]各著作认为炮四平八为红胜。炮四退八可和。||||[FEN=9/3k5/4P4/9/9/9/9/9/4K1p2/9 b - - 0 25]暂诠为和局着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/9/9/9/9/3K3p1/9/9 b - - 0 14]和棋主变？红可胜[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/R8/5k3/9/9/9/9/9/9/4K4 b - - 0 33]各著作红胜着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/5k3/c4R3/5P3/9/3r5/9/7p1/4K4/9 b - - 1 17]杨明忠1988年版蕉谱红胜着法[/FEN]（注：杨版其实未给出具体着法，只是说参照另一局。该着法是黄政江湖清盘棋揭秘江湖热局类著作中提及的。黄政在著作主变和前面介绍中也认为红胜，但在注解2中有一路和棋）||||[FEN=1C7/2P2P3/4k4/4c4/9/9/4P4/7p1/4Rr3/4K4 w - - 3 6]蕉竹斋第6局，黑胜[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/4k4/c4r3/4P4/4R4/9/3C5/7p1/4K4/9 b - - 19 17]江湖棋局搜秘新版红胜[/FEN]||||||[FEN=5k3/4P4/9/5r3/9/2c6/3R5/4C4/9/4K4 b - - 34 30]白宏宽18年版蕉竹斋红胜着法[/FEN]||||||焦竹斋中还载有炮打两狼关另一局，黑卒在7路。各诠注本该路变化7路卒诠为和，8路卒诠为红胜。这次拆解，我发现很多种着法跟卒的位置没有关系，即两局通用。也有一些变化在8路卒中是红胜，而在7路卒中是和棋，但若是黑先变招的，这路变化黑可不走，这样最终还是和棋。这局若确是红胜，在7路卒的局中要找出一些红先变招的着法，或是在7路卒局中有卒7平6的着法在8路卒局中黑是否有别的应着可替代。这次拆解特意把7路卒的着法合并过来，来区别它们着法的异同。||||7路卒8路卒通用着法：||[FEN=9/5k3/9/c8/9/9/4P4/7p1/4C4/4K4 w - - 0 11]7路卒蕉竹斋第1局，和[/FEN]||||||胜负不同着法：（重点拆解黑是否走和）||[FEN=7R1/5r3/5k3/c8/9/9/4P4/7p1/4C4/4K4 b - - 7 11]7路卒8路卒变化分支处1[/FEN]该局是否红胜看这路变化。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/4P4/9/9/9/4c4/4r2p1/3C5/3K5 w - - 10 12]7路卒8路卒变化分支处2[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8][FEN=9/2P2P3/4k4/3R5/9/9/4P4/7p1/4r4/cC2pK3 w - - 10 9]蕉竹斋第7局，黑胜[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12]？||||[FEN=3C5/4k4/9/9/9/9/9/3K5/9/9 b - - 0 15]杨明忠象棋古谱残局诠正大全中的和棋走法。[/FEN]。||||[FEN=1C3k3/4P2R1/9/9/9/9/4c4/9/3K1p3/1r7 b - - 35 26]白宏宽18年版蕉竹斋红胜着法。[/FEN]||||||弈聪注：上述两种着法好象都有问题。||[FEN=3k5/3C5/9/3P1R3/9/9/4r4/6p2/3K5/9 b - - 20 20]该路红胜着法。[/FEN]。||||本人该变对现有诠注本的几处诠正。||||[FEN=1C2R4/3k5/9/c1r6/3P5/9/9/9/4K2p1/9 w - - 10 13]诠正着法1[/FEN]||||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/3R5/9/9/2r1P4/7p1/3K5/9 b - - 6 13]诠正着法2[/FEN]||||[FEN=3C5/5k3/9/4R4/4P4/9/4r4/7p1/3K5/9 b - - 12 16]诠正着法3[/FEN]||||[FEN=9/4k4/9/3C5/9/3RP4/4r4/9/5Kp2/9 w - - 13 16]诠正着法4[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]该变红把黑炮吃掉了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]先将再吃炮，以后有机会退炮。||||再拆发现以后形成相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]7路卒局中这步黑应以卒7平6可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23]这步红进兵呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24]||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/3R5/9/9/2r1P4/7p1/4K4/9 w - - 3 10]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]诠正着法2||||改进着法。目前拆解结果红方可胜。||||以下可能未拆解透。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31][FEN=3C5/5k3/9/4R4/4P4/9/4r4/7p1/3K5/9 b - - 12 16]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39]再改进。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43]兑车即红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_53]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_40]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_39]这步棋好象是闲棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_53]红不走该炮，黑应该是一将一杀。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_79]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_79]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_31]红胜。（红刚好可海底捞月）[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_39]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_25]劣。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_25]同帅五平六着法基本一样。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_31]再拆诠正着法3。||||[FEN=3C5/5k3/9/4R4/4P4/9/4r4/7p1/3K5/9 b - - 12 16]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment7_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_46]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_42]关键。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_55]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_49]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_23]黑车将军后，红帅只能平四路。成牵制和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_26]这样红有顾虑。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_27]黑有优势。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_40]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_26]拆解红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_32]再拆诠正着法4。||||以后和另外一路变化中的黑弃炮之后的变化很相似。||||[FEN=7R1/9/5k3/4c4/9/9/4P4/4C2p1/4K4/6r2 w - - 12 13]相似局面始[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment13_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_79]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_79]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_39]黑一将一杀，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_22]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_21]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_27]||第11回合红改走车九平五，避免换子可胜。（弈聪注：再拆解后，车九平五是红胜）[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_30]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_73]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_73]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_17]杨明忠版本直接吃炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_20]||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/3R5/9/9/2r1P4/7p1/4K4/9 w - - 3 10]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment21_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_15]某诠注本中的改进着法。据此诠为红胜。但我觉得可和。原着法为车五退三，我拆解结果是红方可依现行棋规取胜。||||该变黑炮还保留着。黑炮平左后对红方也有杀棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_26]诠正着法1。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_44]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_50]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_38]红违规。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_32]黑可胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_26]？||||红已胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_49]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_55]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment30_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31_96]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_96]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32_38]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment32_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_55]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment33_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_33]在炮打两狼关（一）中系和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment34_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment34_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_25]该变系炮打两狼关（一）中的着法，现移植过来。[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_29]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_21][FEN=3CR4/3k5/9/c8/3P5/9/9/7p1/2r6/4K4 b - - 5 11]相似局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment37_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_22]诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_49]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment40_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_15]||wolaikk提出的意见：5楼的9回合将5平6变还要细演一下，11回合车6平9是败着，下面2路变化错着都在18回合，退将变车二进三应改成进车打将后平边捉炮，即使允许一将一捉也是红胜；平卒变的18回合改走车二进二、进三、进四都是红胜。||11回合正确的应法是车6平7，与平9的区别是在黑卒被消灭时同时解决了高将和车不在9路给黑炮让出位置。若允许一将一捉，红主动变着退车守中炮，黑可借兑炮之机谋和。||其实，黑卒被吃后的局面云库已经可以查到了。||||该路变化若不允许一将一捉的话黑能否走和。||在8路卒中古谱无该路变化。7路卒中蕉竹斋有该路变化。原先拆解时，这路变化忽略。||||||||在8路卒中古谱及各诠注本无该路变化。7路卒中蕉竹斋有该路变化。18年版白宏宽的蕉竹斋版有了此路变化。我原先拆解时，这路变化忽略。当把7路卒的变化移过来后，发现了这路变化，经初步拆解，感觉很复杂。黑方经常会走成一将一杀的局面，胜和待定。再深入拆解后，发现黑第9或13回合走炮1平5弃炮感觉有和棋的可能，黑通过弃炮换取子力上的快速，形成牵制性和棋。统一放到第13回合拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_18]这路变化黑求和较难。||第13回合走炮1平5，基本上和这步走炮1平5差不多。其它走法经常遇见一将一捉局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_19]这步应招有些关键。||||以下黑弃炮后，红有无炮五平六拦黑车的棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_21]各诠注本这步红直接兑车简单成和。||||7路卒蕉竹斋第2局，和。这步红走车四平三，黑车6平8。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_22][FEN=9/4k4/9/4C4/3RP4/9/9/9/2r2p3/3K5 b - - 72 50]暂作为该路和局着法[/FEN]||||注解合并：||湖涯集中的炮打两狼关黑卒在7.7位,黑炮在9.3位(说明该步黑车平9路也不行)，此时红退车即胜.现在黑有杀棋,红来不及退车。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_26]这样同第9回合走炮1平5的局面基本相似。||||这样黑方较容易掌握。||||dave7788：远卒局应该是让位与进卒局了，研究价值不大，事倍功半。炮1平5的变化，红以后有炮五平六再用炮拦黑车的棋，目的是在保证不失兵的情况下退炮回家攻守兼备。总之，远卒局红方有利，近卒局是改进局，当然，以后又有改进。||||||再次拆解时从这里重点开始。||||这样同第9回合走炮1平5的局面基本相似。||||这样黑方较容易掌握。||||备注：同第9回合走炮1平5还是有所区别，红有炮五平六拦黑车的棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_59]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_59]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_67]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_54]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45_56]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment45_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_30]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_31]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_53]红可一将一闲作和。||||？变招红有无风险。[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_72]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_72]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_99]牵制和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_84]亚规判和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment48_84]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49_72]暂作和。||||走其它招红帅进中后平左黑很容易走成一将一杀的局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49_72]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_31]新拆解诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_32]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_38][FEN=3R5/9/4k4/9/9/9/2rCP4/5p3/9/4K4 w - - 7 13]与第9回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||该局面黑将在6路，黑车下步可进一，红暂无杀棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_43]黑一将一杀。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_44]这样不是一将一杀了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_45]红走其它，黑车平中立和。||||红强变拆解结果黑优。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_92]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_92]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_47]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment53_49]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment53_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_36]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_41]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_30]其它两路着法让红炮有平至六路的机会。[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_75]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_75]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61_34]黑车平7路与9路的区别。||||[FEN=9/9/5k3/9/9/4P4/6cR1/9/8r/4K4 w - - 3 17]相似局面。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment61_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment62_30]暂作和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment62_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment67_59]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment67_59]
[DhtmlXQ_comment68_22]败着？应车6平7。[FEN=9/9/5k3/9/9/4P4/6cR1/9/8r/4K4 w - - 3 17]黑车两种走法的区别[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment68_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment68_37]过中兵，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment68_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment68_44]亚规判和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment68_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69_83]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment69_83]
[DhtmlXQ_comment70_56]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment70_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment72_111]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment72_111]
[DhtmlXQ_comment73_35]退将变车二进三应改成进车打将后平边捉炮，即使允许一将一捉也是红胜；[/DhtmlXQ_comment73_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment73_86]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment73_86]
[DhtmlXQ_comment74_35]？劣。||||平卒变的18回合改走车二进二、进三、进四都是红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment74_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment74_93]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment74_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment75_25]按7路卒局的招法走。[/DhtmlXQ_comment75_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment75_30]7路卒蕉竹斋第2局，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment75_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment76_28]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment76_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment76_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment76_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment77_34]黑车平7路与9路的区别。||||[FEN=9/9/5k3/9/9/4P4/6cR1/9/6r2/4K4 w - - 3 17]相似局面。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment77_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment77_50]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment77_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment78_22]和。7路卒蕉竹斋第1局，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment78_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment79_21]该变为胡知虑泛舟采荷象棋谱中的着法，照书录入。未拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment79_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment79_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment79_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment80_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment80_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_18]只能这样走和。另一路走法走和较难，避免一将一捉的棋规。||||各种变招最后局面基本相似。||||||以下为最初拆解时的招法。再次拆解时从第13回合走炮1平5重点开始。||||再注：再次拆解时，发现现在弃炮，以下红有炮五平六拦黑车的棋，红胜？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment81_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_20]||dave7788：《蕉竹斋》能够走出的这个局面在《湖涯集》“炮炸两狼关”变着中曾出现过。||||下步建议走法为炮五平六。[/DhtmlXQ_comment81_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_21]红胜？||||[FEN=3R5/2r6/4k4/3C5/9/9/4P4/6p2/9/4K4 b - - 2 11]与第13回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||与湖涯集中一样的局面了。至此直接作红胜了。下无着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment81_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_22]可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment81_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment82_26][FEN=3R5/5k3/9/9/9/9/1r1CP4/5p3/9/4K4 w - - 11 19]与第13回合弃炮时的局面区别。[/FEN]||||主要是黑老将位置不同，黑将在6路，下步黑可走车进一居中将吃兵等。[/DhtmlXQ_comment82_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment82_27]黑进一已来不及。[/DhtmlXQ_comment82_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment82_43]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment82_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment83_54]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment83_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment84_55]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment84_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment85_43]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment85_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment87_22]可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment87_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment89_22]可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment89_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_15]各走法很容易会走成相同局面A。这步棋红也可调换一下走子顺序，有变招的余地。||||车五平六和车五退三是我临时感兴趣拆解的变化，不一定正确。||||[FEN=9/5k3/5r3/4P4/9/9/9/5R3/c4C1p1/4K4 b - - 19 17]蒋权朱鹤洲91年蕉谱版本胜法1[/FEN]||||[FEN=5R3/4P4/5k2c/9/9/9/3C1r3/7p1/9/4K4 b - - 33 24]蒋权朱鹤洲91年蕉谱版本胜法2[/FEN]||||[FEN=3k5/6R2/2P6/9/9/9/9/3r5/4K4/9 b - - 0 20]蒋权朱鹤洲91年蕉谱版本胜法3[/FEN]||||7路卒局中蕉竹斋无该变着法。有诠注本下步黑应以车3进6，7路卒局可成和，8路卒红胜。||||注解合并：||以往诠注本着法，作为红胜。经我拆解为和。暂略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_18]该变各著作未提起，都是先走炮1进5将军。||||调换一下走子顺序。||||很多变化会走成相同局面。||||黑上回合车3进8和这步可以调换一下走子顺序。局面相同。中间变招机会不大。||||湖涯集中也有一局炮炸两狼关，黑炮在左侧（黑卒位置也稍有差异）。没有进炮将军的棋，为红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_19]其它变着中，红可能不先进此兵。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_20]||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/7p1/c2CK4/2r6 w - - 6 10]相同局面A[/FEN]||||下步红有进一，进二（三），进四的走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_21][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/3CP4/9/9/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment90_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_23]这步帅进一呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_24][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/3CP4/9/9/7p1/c3K4/3r5 b - - 9 12]相似局面，先后手互换[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment90_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_25]这步红可否弃炮？[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment91_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment91_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_25][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/3C3p1/c3K4/3r5 w - - 8 11]另一变招中的红弃炮局面。红可胜[/FEN]||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/4P4/3C5/9/9/7p1/c2r5/4K4 b - - 11 13]本局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment92_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_32]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment92_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment93_32]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment93_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment93_54]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment93_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment94_37]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment94_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment95_21][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面，和[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment95_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment95_24]相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment95_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment96_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/3C3p1/c1r1K4/9 w - - 8 11]相同局面，和[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment96_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment97_20]||与先走炮1进5将军的区别。||||[FEN=9/3k5/9/c3R4/9/4P4/2r6/7p1/3CK4/9 w - - 6 10]相同局面，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment97_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment97_46]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment97_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment98_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment98_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment99_38]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment99_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment100_21]相同局面，红胜。||||[FEN=9/3k5/9/4R4/9/4P4/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment100_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment101_18]各著作走法。||||红胜。||||直接用炮将军，再用车将红帅可退底。红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment101_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment101_19][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相似局面，黑将4退1，红兵进一多走了一回合[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment101_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment101_21]此时红可不走兵五进一，直接退车。||||注解合并：||此时红可不走兵五进一，直接退车。||||[FEN=9/3k5/9/4R4/9/4P4/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment101_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment101_22]在其它变着相似局面中（红兵已进一，红车在五0位）这步黑可走车3平4和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment101_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment101_23]相似局面中红帅是走进一。[/DhtmlXQ_comment101_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment101_65]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment101_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment102_57]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment102_57]
[DhtmlXQ_comment103_67]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment103_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment104_21]为了说明相似局面的差别。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment104_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment104_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/3r5 w - - 8 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment104_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment105_27]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment105_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment106_19]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment106_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment106_78]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment106_78]
[DhtmlXQ_comment108_18]？红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment108_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment108_19]红胜。||||红通过这步棋有机会把车走到兵后。[/DhtmlXQ_comment108_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment108_21]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment108_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment108_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment108_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment109_85]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment109_85]
[DhtmlXQ_comment111_22]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment111_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment111_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment111_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment112_27]黑下步没什么棋可走。[/DhtmlXQ_comment112_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment112_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment112_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment113_29]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment113_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment114_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment114_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment115_18]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment115_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment115_45]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment115_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment116_16]这步棋和车3进8只是走子顺序不同，至下面就会就成相同局面。[/DhtmlXQ_comment116_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment116_20]||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/7p1/c2CK4/2r6 w - - 6 10]相同局面A[/FEN]||||下步红有进一，进二（三），进四的走法。||||[FEN=4R4/9/3k5/9/9/4P4/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 5 10]其它变化中进二（三）走法，红帅可退底，红胜[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment116_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment116_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/3C3p1/c1r1K4/9 w - - 8 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment116_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment116_26]诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment116_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment116_32]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment116_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment117_42]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment117_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment118_26]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment118_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment118_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment118_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment119_61]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment119_61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment120_27]已和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment120_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment120_52]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment120_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment121_28]黑可动卒，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment121_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment121_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment121_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment122_22]这步跟炮，黑可弃炮。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/9/3C3p1/c3K4/3r5 w - - 8 11]本局面[/FEN]||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/4P4/3C5/9/9/7p1/c2r5/4K4 b - - 11 13]另一变招中的红弃炮局面。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment122_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment122_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment122_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment123_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment123_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment124_21][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/3CP4/9/9/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面，和[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment124_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment125_21][FEN=4R4/9/3k5/9/9/4P4/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 5 10]相似局面[/FEN]||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/2r6 b - - 7 11]相同局面[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment125_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment125_22][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/4P4/9/3C5/7p1/c3K4/3r5 w - - 8 11]相同局面[/FEN]||||在相似局面中黑不能平四跟炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment125_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment125_23]这步棋若动炮，可能还要输。[/DhtmlXQ_comment125_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment125_25]下步黑平中将军即和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment125_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment125_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment125_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment126_23]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment126_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment126_58]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment126_58]
[DhtmlXQ_comment127_23]黑胜。||||注解合并：||黑胜。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/3CP4/9/9/7p1/c2r5/4K4 w - - 10 12]相似局面，先后手互换[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment127_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment128_20]！[FEN=9/3k5/9/c3R4/9/4P4/2r6/7p1/3CK4/9 w - - 6 10]相同局面，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment128_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment129_20]红胜。未拆解。[/DhtmlXQ_comment129_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment132_16]？红胜。||||使红下步有机会车五平六取胜。[FEN=3R5/9/3k5/c8/9/4P4/9/7p1/2rCK4/9 b - - 5 10]其它变化也同理。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment132_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment132_17]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment132_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment132_33]红方胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment132_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment132_47]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment132_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment133_37]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment133_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment134_41]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment134_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment135_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment135_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment136_63]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment136_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment137_28]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment137_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment138_26]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment138_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment139_16]红胜。7路卒局该变黑可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment139_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment139_24]7路卒局该着黑可走卒7平6，成和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment139_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment139_53]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment139_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment140_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment140_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment141_33]红升炮再移炮到右边，黑没办法阻止，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment141_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment141_51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment141_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment142_35]再升炮打兵，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment142_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment143_35]？？[/DhtmlXQ_comment143_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment143_44]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment143_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment144_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment144_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment145_57]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment145_57]
[DhtmlXQ_comment146_16]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment146_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment146_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment146_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment147_29]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment147_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment148_74]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment148_74]
[DhtmlXQ_comment149_21]和。参阅其它变着中的相似局面。||||注解合并：||和还是黑胜？[/DhtmlXQ_comment149_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment149_23]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment149_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment149_38]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment149_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment150_50]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment150_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment151_20]！[/DhtmlXQ_comment151_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment151_38]若兑车即和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment151_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment151_62]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment151_62]
[DhtmlXQ_comment152_28]和。黑有优势。[/DhtmlXQ_comment152_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment153_12]黑的另一路走法是先弃卒。变化复杂。[/DhtmlXQ_comment153_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment153_17]黑车失红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment153_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment153_19]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment153_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment154_19]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment154_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment155_17]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment155_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment156_19]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment156_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment157_17]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment157_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment158_9]败着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment158_9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment158_12]蕉谱第6局，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment158_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment158_14]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment158_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment159_18]蕉竹斋7局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment159_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment160_16]蕉竹斋8局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment160_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment161_18]蕉竹斋9局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment161_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment162_22]蕉竹斋10局黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment162_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment163_13]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment163_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment164_1]||[FEN=4k4/5P3/4c4/9/9/9/9/9/4K4/9 w - - 0 20]各著作和棋着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=6P2/1P2P4/3k5/4c4/9/4C4/4P4/9/5p3/3pK4 w - - 11 12]李良剑和蒋权在1984年象棋第5期上诠为黑胜着法[/FEN]||||[FEN=5P3/2PP4c/4k4/9/9/9/9/4p4/5K3/9 b - - 7 16]蕉竹斋第1局，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment164_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment164_3]妙手，保车解杀，是唯一可使这个古局下和的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment164_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment164_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment164_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment165_28]和||这路和法是王延学提出的新变化。[/DhtmlXQ_comment165_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment166_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment166_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment167_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment167_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment168_3]误||||[FEN=3k5/1P2P4/4R4/9/9/9/8c/7p1/4C4/5K3 b - - 8 13]蕉竹斋第2局，红胜。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment168_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment168_24]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment168_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment169_18]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment169_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment170_18]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment170_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment171_14]这是原谱的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment171_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment171_20]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment171_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment172_16]红方幸和||||改走炮5进2黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment172_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment172_20]以下走炮5平3把帅赶下再卒进中黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment172_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment172_30]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment172_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment173_18]同意兑换是软着。应走卒5平4黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment173_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment173_31]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment173_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment174_31]蕉竹斋第1局，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment174_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment175_46]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment175_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment178_25]蕉竹斋第2局，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment178_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment179_19]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment179_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment180_8]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment180_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment180_10]蕉竹斋第4局，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment180_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment181_8]蕉竹斋第3局，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment181_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment182_22]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment182_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment183_6]蕉竹斋第5局，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment183_6]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

本次对第6回合黑应以卒4平5再次进行了拆解，发现各诠注本的着法都有问题。
这几天该贴编辑了好几次。

作者: chouzhouyu 时间: 2019-5-15 18:29
本帖最后由 chouzhouyu 于 2019-5-15 19:34 编辑

先发一起，比较一下区别。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]炮打两狼关(一)(下集局20,总79)[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_round]97-90[/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_table][/DhtmlXQ_table]
[DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red]
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[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_author]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_81_35_82]38392729[/DhtmlXQ_move_81_35_82]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_85]03334043333043133242213142325141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_85]
[DhtmlXQ_move_85_14_86]5258213132314333[/DhtmlXQ_move_85_14_86]
[DhtmlXQ_move_85_14_87]525143333242213151583332[/DhtmlXQ_move_85_14_87]
[DhtmlXQ_move_85_14_88]5256213132314333[/DhtmlXQ_move_85_14_88]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_9_89]30335258105058783353787953590343[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_9_89]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_9_90]303803433848525848474347[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_9_90]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_91]425230325251101151503230[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_91]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_92]5058303151413132588803434959106088824342626142436160384882856768[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_92]
[DhtmlXQ_move_92_14_93]324282856768[/DhtmlXQ_move_92_14_93]
[DhtmlXQ_move_92_14_94]675782843839[/DhtmlXQ_move_92_14_94]
[DhtmlXQ_move_92_5_95]6010383949590309[/DhtmlXQ_move_92_5_95]
[DhtmlXQ_move_95_7_96]49480343[/DhtmlXQ_move_95_7_96]
[DhtmlXQ_move_92_3_97]112131326010383949590309[/DhtmlXQ_move_92_3_97]
[DhtmlXQ_move_92_3_98]58880343495910601121313288824342626142436160675782843839[/DhtmlXQ_move_92_3_98]
[DhtmlXQ_move_98_14_99]384882856768[/DhtmlXQ_move_98_14_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]||分类:单车炮类||蕉谱114局炮打两狼关(二),涯谱27局炮炸两狼关,蕉谱79局炮打两狼关,渊谱350局七行五政.||||[FEN=9/5k3/9/c8/9/9/4P4/6p2/4C4/4K4 w - - 0 11]蕉竹斋第1局，和。[/FEN]||||||[FEN=4R4/2rk5/9/c8/9/4P4/9/6p2/3C5/4K4 w - - 2 8]待拆。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1] 炮轰哪一只车，大有讲究。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14][FEN=9/9/3k5/4R4/9/4P4/9/3Cp4/c2r5/5K3 w - - 12 13]蕉竹斋第4局，黑胜。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17][FEN=9/9/4k4/4C4/3RP4/2r6/9/9/3K1p3/9 b - - 14 17]蕉竹斋第3局，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20][FEN=9/5k3/9/c8/9/9/4P4/4Cp3/9/4K4 w - - 0 14]蕉竹斋第2局，和。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]蕉竹斋第1局，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_28]蕉竹斋第2局，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_33]蕉竹斋第3局，和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_32]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_15]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_16]黄政著作中该变为红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_50]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_36]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_36]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_47]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_29]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_27]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_53]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_19][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/c8/4P4/9/9/6p2/3CK4/2r6 b - - 5 10]相同局面。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment16_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_23]诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_27]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_29]与第11回合炮六进四局面相似。黑胜面较大。下略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_28]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_40]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_32]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_42]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_33] 红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_37]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_44]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_16]可和。||||在王首成白宏宽12年蕉谱版本中该变主变和注解着法为红胜。其实黑下步或其它回合应以将4退1和这步走将4退1会形成相同（似）的局面，还是可以成和。||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/c8/9/4P4/9/6p2/3CK4/2r6 w - - 4 9]诠正着法1。[/FEN]||||[FEN=4R4/3k5/9/9/9/4P4/9/3C2p2/c3K4/2r6 w - - 6 10]诠正着法2。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment27_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_18]诠正着法||||红下步应以兵五进一的话就会走成相同局面。红下步有无其它变招呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_19][FEN=4R4/3k5/9/c8/4P4/9/9/6p2/3CK4/2r6 b - - 5 10]相同局面。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment27_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_19]红变招只能走这步了，动炮意义不大。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_38]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_46]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_36]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment30_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31_27]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32_27]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment32_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_33] 红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment33_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment34_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_29]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_41]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment37_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_49]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_16]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_31]至此黑卒被灭，黑只能被动防守。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_61]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40_75]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment40_75]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41_79]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment41_79]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_20]和。下略。在炮打两狼关（二）中本人以该招诠为和棋。局面相似。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_29]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_38]互相牵制和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45_46]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment45_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_16]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment46_27]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment46_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47_27]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment47_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment48_37]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment48_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49_16]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49_45] 红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment50_41]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment50_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51_39]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_16]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment52_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment52_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment53_31]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment53_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment54_37]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment54_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment55_29]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment55_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_15]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment56_34]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment56_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_21]可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment57_35]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment57_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment58_46]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment58_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_25]败着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment59_38]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment59_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_21]败着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment60_40]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment60_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61_26]劣着，导致败局。||||蕉竹斋第4局，黑胜。||||续弈红可胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment61_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61_45]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment61_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment62_65]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment62_65]
[DhtmlXQ_comment63_55]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment63_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_41]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment64_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment64_81]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment64_81]
[DhtmlXQ_comment65_30]黑胜势。[/DhtmlXQ_comment65_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment66_12] 黑方送卒，系谋和关键。||||在炮打两狼关（二）中此变系红胜。在该局中暂未仔细拆解。||||[FEN=3C5/9/4k4/3R5/9/9/2r1P4/6p2/3K5/9 b - - 6 13]取胜着法如下。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment66_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment66_54] 和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment66_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment67_25]在炮打两狼关（二）中本人走该着，红方依现行棋规可取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment67_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment67_35]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment67_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment68_36] 和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment68_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69_28]误.||||||注解合并：|| 误。[/DhtmlXQ_comment69_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69_37]好.||||||注解合并：|| 好！[/DhtmlXQ_comment69_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69_39]红胜定.||||||注解合并：|| 红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment69_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment70_71]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment70_71]
[DhtmlXQ_comment71_38]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment71_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment72_35]红炮长拦黑车和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment72_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment73_20]弈聪注：该变应可和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment73_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment73_49]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment73_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment74_30]？||||黑车退1即可。[/DhtmlXQ_comment74_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment74_43]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment74_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment75_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment75_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment76_21]诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment76_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment76_23]？[/DhtmlXQ_comment76_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment76_27]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment76_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment77_30]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment77_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment78_31]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment78_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment79_39]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment79_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment80_21]诠正着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment80_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment80_33]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment80_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment81_40]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment81_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment82_36]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment82_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment83_35]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment83_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment84_26] 黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment84_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment84_32] 黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment84_32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment85_12]误。[/DhtmlXQ_comment85_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment85_19]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment85_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment86_17] 红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment86_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment87_19]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment87_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment88_17]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment88_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment89_16]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment89_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment90_14]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment90_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment91_8]误.[/DhtmlXQ_comment91_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment91_13]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment91_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_1][FEN=1R7/2P2P3/3k2P2/9/9/9/4P4/6p2/5C3/c2p1K3 w - - 3 4]蕉竹斋第5局，黑胜。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment92_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment92_16]黑胜.[/DhtmlXQ_comment92_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment93_16]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment93_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment94_16]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment94_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment95_5]兵八进一黑胜法一样。[/DhtmlXQ_comment95_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment95_8]黑胜.[/DhtmlXQ_comment95_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment96_8] 黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment96_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment97_8]蕉竹斋第5局，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment97_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment98_16]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment98_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment99_16]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment99_16]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]弈聪[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 老鸽子 时间: 2021-3-6 02:28
就这么个残局，竟然一百多年都无定论，我们的特级大师都去哪了？1984年出版的《陶情弈趣》甚至诠为黑胜，首着是纵向打车。这样一来，三种结论齐全！

作者: yjr123 时间: 2021-3-6 09:15

老鸽子发表于 2021-3-6 02:28
就这么个残局，竟然一百多年都无定论，我们的特级大师都去哪了？1984年出版的《陶情弈趣》甚至诠为黑胜，首 ...

炮打两狼关图式太多了，你到底指的是哪个局面？
特级大师对江湖残局根本就没有兴趣，他们研究的是实战。

作者: dave7788 时间: 2021-3-6 11:17
已故的象棋特级大师杨官璘前辈的著作中有古局江湖棋局的篇章

作者: 老鸽子 时间: 2021-3-6 13:23
本帖最后由老鸽子于 2021-3-6 13:33 编辑

yjr123 发表于 2021-3-6 09:15
炮打两狼关图式太多了，你到底指的是哪个局面？
特级大师对江湖残局根本就没有兴趣，他们研究的是实战。

不好意思，在下说的是那个标题局。在下知道此局的版本有二十余个，最早出自竹谱之“蓝天散彩”和渊谱之“七政五行”，抄本《江湖秘谱》里也有两则同类局，还有《湖涯集》版本等。但本局应该出自1976年福州魏子丹等整理的《蕉竹斋汇编》（各种蕉竹斋版本的汇集），而现存最早的抄本、最流行的福州薛兴顺藏本《蕉竹斋象棋谱》（97局本）本身并无此局。后者虽有同名局，但八路卒横移至七路。最早的诠释除了1976年的魏子丹版（尚未找到，不知其结论如何），就应是1984年《陶情弈趣》的同名局，在下看后便一直以为此局的结论是黑胜局，就没留意其它的诠释，直到今天发现此局竟有红胜结论，故突发了上面的感慨。

作者: wolaikk 时间: 2021-3-6 13:32
7路卒应该是正局
但不知何故不如8路卒流传广泛。

作者: 老鸽子 时间: 2021-3-6 13:44

老鸽子发表于 2021-3-6 13:23
不好意思，在下说的是那个标题局。在下知道此局的版本有二十余个，最早出自竹谱之“蓝天散彩”和渊谱之“ ...

是的，七路卒版是正局，而且也是改编最多、流行最广的，并非八路卒版。在目前已知的版本中，八路高卒版仅此一局，其它只有八路底卒。

作者: 老鸽子 时间: 2021-3-6 13:45

wolaikk 发表于 2021-3-6 13:32
7路卒应该是正局
但不知何故不如8路卒流传广泛。

是的，七路卒版是正局，而且也是改编最多、流行最广的，并非八路卒版。在目前已知的版本中，八路高卒版仅此一局，其它只有八路底卒。

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