华工象棋论坛

标题: 王首成的“双飞蝴蝶九” 着法错得有些离谱 [打印本页]
作者: 老鸽子    时间: 2022-8-17 23:46
标题: 王首成的“双飞蝴蝶九” 着法错得有些离谱
本帖最后由 老鸽子 于 2022-8-19 18:34 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_adddate]2022-03-04 21:28:38[/DhtmlXQ_adddate]
[DhtmlXQ_editdate]2022-03-04 21:28:38[/DhtmlXQ_editdate]
[DhtmlXQ_title]王首成《江湖排局新作》（2018年）双飞蝴蝶九[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_class]象棋棋谱大全-近现代残排局[/DhtmlXQ_class]
[DhtmlXQ_event]周孟芳残排作品[/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_round]古局摘锦[/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_date]0000-00-00[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]周孟芳[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]李云杰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1]39493839[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_16]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_16][DhtmlXQ_comment0]十多年来，王先生多与敖日西、朱小坚等合作出书，但本书例外，却是个人专著。||||下面以本局为例，来看看在没有敖日西、朱小坚两位大师把关的情况下王先生的解局水准！[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_2]7778020841312735786808483738483850401020[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_2][DhtmlXQ_comment2_12]以下同正着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_12]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_3]48380838373839386768[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_3][DhtmlXQ_comment3_14]亦和[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_14][DhtmlXQ_comment24]书中就这样把此局定性为黑胜局，就这样眼看着黑卒五进一闷杀！红方实有四次抬车机会，只要把车抬起，黑即无杀！但凡初学者，也不致于此吧！||||总体而言，本谱与其说是“新作”，倒不如说王先生的抄写水准极高。而且，同局多谱重复收录。正如有些大师所言，他虽著作十余部，但属于自己的作品不足十局！（但古谱诠释书不详）[/DhtmlXQ_comment24]
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作者: 老鸽子    时间: 2022-8-18 00:02
该谱称，此局选自网络，但实为朱鹤洲《江湖排局集成》“将得好有瘾”的改编局，即：加一路底兵，其余图势完全相同。
作者: xqahz010    时间: 2022-8-18 07:46
笑死我了,王先生作品有待商量的地方还真不少
作者: xqahz010    时间: 2022-8-18 07:48
一直以为鸽兄只要棋图和出处 ,不要招法 ,现在要改变观念了
作者: 聨吟客    时间: 2022-8-18 08:38
雖然如此  王先生編書的貢獻仍應給予肯定

所以收錄書中之前要拿到網站討論眾人加上使用軟件把關才好

即便如此 一本書中  也很難百分之 百完全無錯誤 棋局博大精深啊

作者: 老鸽子    时间: 2022-8-18 10:41
本帖最后由 老鸽子 于 2022-8-25 19:12 编辑
聨吟客 发表于 2022-8-18 08:38
雖然如此  王先生編書的貢獻仍應給予肯定

所以收錄書中之前要拿到網站討論眾人加上使用軟件把關才好

本人在这里想要说的是：

其一，古往今来，错着无谱不有，但错得不应这么低级。这种错误有点像1930年代的棋坛绝妙缪误集锦《中华国手象棋谱》。

其二，同局多谱大量重复收录，而且并无改进，有投机之嫌。除了古谱诠释，每出一新谱，重局至少过半（不包括选自其它棋谱之局）。例如：本谱于2018年元月出版，而随后又于二月出版《江湖热门棋局揭秘》，尽管两谱几乎是同时出版，但所收录的“小鹏”十余局却基本相同。棋坛需要的是实实在在的东西，不需要“投机家”。

其三，他在有关书中自称“颇有成就”，但看了他的十来部著作，也不知其“成就”在哪里？敖日西、朱小坚以及诸家的创作变成他的成就了吗？需要说明的是：“颇有成就”与“颇有一些作为（或建树、成绩等）”，加上了“一些”两字是有很大区别的。他最多不过是个参与者，而不是主角或成就者！
作者: 老鸽子    时间: 2022-8-18 10:49
本帖最后由 老鸽子 于 2022-8-18 12:50 编辑
xqahz010 发表于 2022-8-18 07:48
一直以为鸽兄只要棋图和出处 ,不要招法 ,现在要改变观念了

在下只是大体瞄了一下着法，主要是为了查验一下棋图有无印刷错误。即便这样，还是第一眼就发现了此局的着法错误，以前曾见过他的其它书亦有类似的低级错着，但没有记录下来，已经忘了。
作者: 石川铃华老湿    时间: 2022-8-18 13:27

近期作品有软件把关，应该不会有什么大的错误的！~
作者: 石川铃华老湿    时间: 2022-8-18 13:29
本帖最后由 石川铃华老湿 于 2022-8-18 13:30 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_comment14]到此，会下棋的人，一眼就看出和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
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作者: chouzhouyu    时间: 2022-8-19 21:58
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[DhtmlXQ_title]14-08 连环无边（诠为黑胜）[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0][fen=5k3/4P4/bc3r3/9/9/9/4P1P2/8C/2p1p2C1/4K2R1 w - - 2 1]诠正1。[/fen]||||[fen=5k3/4P4/b3cr3/9/9/9/4P1P2/4C4/2p4C1/3pK2R1 w - - 4 2]诠正2。[/fen][/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]诠正1[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_4]诠正2[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_45]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_40]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_40]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_12]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_16]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_7]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_3]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_5]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_5]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_7]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_12]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_12]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_14]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_2]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_14]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_6]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_4]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_4]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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作者: 老鸽子    时间: 2022-8-20 15:19
钟先生对此局的研究颇深，其中第一种诠正可能要改变许多“黑右炮局”的结论。
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2022-8-20 22:43
老鸽子 发表于 2022-8-18 00:02
该谱称，此局选自网络，但实为朱鹤洲《江湖排局集成》“将得好有瘾”的改编局，即：加一路底兵，其余图势完 ...

这个棋图是根据一则黑胜局修改，十几年前发在智弈网上的，没有拟着法，可以照搬黑胜局的走法，后面仍然能和。也没有把它当成正式的改局，因为敖日西的修改方案更好一些。
作者: ★星海★    时间: 2022-8-20 22:46
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2022-8-21 04:13 编辑

这是敖日西棋友的改局，
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[DhtmlXQ_title]（2009年）[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2022-8-21 05:54
标题: 黑胜局如下
本帖最后由 ★星海★ 于 2022-8-21 11:33 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_comment13]另有炮三平一和炮三平四均为黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment39]红方长打违例，故变着[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]也可胜，步数较缓[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2022-8-21 10:54
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[DhtmlXQ_comment13]另有炮三平一和炮三平四均为黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_39]红方长打违例，故变着[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_39]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]也可胜，步数较缓[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_39_1]59560802365552425536424156554151102002425545423245553235555635454959454636173848173647375652373820304642525742125756121936483848565219153040156540306561304061605253515240506061506061515354515460505251506054536070515070605040607053237060232060702070[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_39_1][DhtmlXQ_comment39]亚规走法[/DhtmlXQ_comment39]
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作者: yjr123    时间: 2022-8-21 11:11
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[DhtmlXQ_comment13]另有炮三平一和炮三平四均为黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment4_39]红方长打违例，故变着[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_39]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]也可胜，步数较缓[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment5_39]亚规可以走[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_39]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D56915[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: ★星海★    时间: 2022-8-21 11:28
yjr123 发表于 2022-8-21 11:11

看来亚规和不成立。

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[DhtmlXQ_comment4_39]红方长打违例，故变着[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_39]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]也可胜，步数较缓[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_56]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment5_39]亚规可以走[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_39]
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作者: 老鸽子    时间: 2022-8-25 19:47
本帖最后由 老鸽子 于 2022-8-30 03:12 编辑

这就是《江湖排局集成》之“将得好有瘾”，其变改局还加了兵卒相象。此局非常复杂，看了半天也未看透。非连照局往往比连照局复杂得多，因为连照局的着法往往是唯一的，或变着不多，而非连照局则变幻莫测。

敖日西改的那局后收入《象棋排局新编》，2017年6月出版。图势略有不同，多了个过门，两个回合后同型。个人认为，两种改法均可，只是敖先生改的棋型相对工整，着法也要多几个回合。而网络版本两底兵分处两边，末尾黑方打不死红炮，更打不死兵，红方和得稳妥，但留下红炮又似多余，显得红方没能充分发挥各子的效力，从这个意义上说，和得不够充分。
作者: 石川铃华老湿    时间: 2022-8-27 03:24
还是原局，精简有力
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