邢春波 发表于 2015-10-9 19:16

回复70楼

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第二图见72楼。

那54與55樓也不能吃相應判和囉?

聨吟客 发表于 2015-10-9 20:00
喔喔喔................大陸規則真的太複雜,但是69樓的2圖也是能吃象,為何又判和局呢?

  喔,看錯了, 69 樓2圖不能吃象,所以判和

聨吟客 发表于 2015-10-9 20:04
還有54與55樓局末該如何判?

69楼2图与例一相同
54楼与55楼要看黑能不能吃相，能吃判捉不能吃判闲
例如
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還有54與55樓局末該如何判?

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-9 19:24

喔喔喔................大陸規則真的太複雜,但是69樓的2圖也是能吃象,為何又判和局呢?

忘了還有47.48樓變化[DhtmlXQ]
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zhaodi 发表于 2015-10-9 15:52
61楼第一图，黑第一回合除去车5平6，还可走车5平4和车5退2，可和。

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61楼第一图，黑第一回合除去车5平6，还可走车5平4和车5退2，可和。
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[DhtmlXQ_comment9]双方不变作和，理由就是39||楼杨启忠老师提到的棋例通则26.2歀：守和方只有一个进攻子力时，占据守和要点，附带产生的捉士象按闲处理。||如何理解可续走看其结果[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红抢占中路胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
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第2图，黑第一回合可走车5退2，可和。

邢兄61之第2圖與62樓的局面相同但判決卻矛盾了,呵呵呵

規則條文只說附帶捉士相判和, 並沒有說敢吃判負,  不敢吃 判和,呵呵呵,  不需要做過多的解釋吧?

除非 規則修訂加上這些條文 ,那我也樂觀其成

我仍認為敢不敢吃相不是重點,黑方目的是佔據要點守和,不這麼走就無法守和,應該請教多幾位國家級裁判解說看看

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-8 21:27
不是太明白杨老师的意思，循环达3次属于待判局面，红退车是对这个判定的解释。棋例通则26.2款是：守和方只 ...

对棋例的判定，我十分外行，不太了解，实在抱歉！邢春波老师应该是正确的。

杨启忠 发表于 2015-10-8 20:45

不是太明白杨老师的意思，循环达3次属于待判局面，红退车是对这个判定的解释。棋例通则26.2款是：守和方只有一个进攻子力时，占据守和要点，附带产生的捉士象按闲处理。怎样理解附带产生的捉士象是关键，例一毫无争议是附带的捉，因黑车不敢吃相。而例二是敢带将吃相的，应判捉，此棋例曾向裁判请教过，也判黑一将一捉。

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-7 21:19
以下是我对这个棋例判定的理解和认识，在棋图的着法之中，请大家指教
例一

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[DhtmlXQ_comment12]此时循环达3次，应对这个棋例进行判定。至于5回合红退车让黑白吃相后出现的结果，不在此棋例内。故根据棋例通则26.2款本楼判和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12]
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以下是我对这个棋例判定的理解和认识，在棋图的着法之中，请大家指教
例一
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[DhtmlXQ_comment9]双方不变作和，理由就是39||楼杨启忠老师提到的棋例通则26.2歀：守和方只有一个进攻子力时，占据守和要点，附带产生的捉士象按闲处理。||如何理解可续走看其结果[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红抢占中路胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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例二
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[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑车一将一捉不变判负，如何理解依然可以接走看其结果[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12]红白丢中相无法抢占中路。所以黑车6平5判捉，因其是带将吃相，不会因吃相会对自己造成不利。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12]
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59樓好像也能和

54  樓紅還有一種變化值得研究,不知是勝是和? 右底相與左底相是有差別的
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[DhtmlXQ_comment2_27]||規則如何判[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26]待研究[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
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1樓 紅車進五按照31樓 簡明可和(過程黑棄卒換相),

紅 車進八若黑兌車則參考55樓變化(過程需棄卒)應判和,若
黑車平5可走成類似48樓變化, 黑棄不棄卒或紅主動吃不吃得到卒也許都能和

我的研究心得( 包括趙老師與楊老師等人指導)是如此  ,除非規則另有解釋,56 樓提出的規則疑問到底有沒有人能確切地回答我呢?

聨吟客 发表于 2015-9-29 11:35
除了捉中相 之外,54樓比55樓還多了 附帶抽吃邊相(雖然黑 目的不在此),規則判決相同否? 我認為應該都判和局 ...

1楼黑不能弃卒，红须设法吃掉此卒才能取胜。电脑还没修，等修好我用动态棋图来解释这个棋例

除了捉中相 之外,54樓比55樓還多了 附帶抽吃邊相(雖然黑 目的不在此),規則判決相同否? 我認為應該都判和局,除非規則另有解釋?

大家認為呢?
那麼黑棄卒就是關鍵了,不棄卒就判紅勝了

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[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]898331418333304049394144333109198070192939382939483944437060434469874443315143333848334348384333384833434838[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]304083130919807019297060[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]||規則如何判[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_26]待研究[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_26]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_13_2]70603949698749594857444331514333384833434838433338484030[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_13_2]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

還有 這樣,呵呵呵呵呵呵,晚點再來
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8999294849594799999999809999999931999999309999999999990999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

為了討論規則問題, 再改這樣[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8999694849594799999999809999999931999999309999999999990999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

呵呵呵,暈[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8999694849594799999999809999999933999999309999999999990999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]結果看規則如何判定[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]89813343[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_4_1]304083130919807019297060[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_4_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_15_2]70603949698749594857444331514333384833434838433338484030[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_15_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_29]規則怎麼判[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_28]||待研究[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_28]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_18_3]435331304041605041513040[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_18_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_4]3331818331418333304049394144333109198070192939382939483944437060434469874443315143333848334348384333384833434838[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_4][DhtmlXQ_comment2]這樣就好了[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

原局也這樣走, 呵呵呵,兩局規則判決相不相同呢?
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8999294849594799999999809999999933999999309999999999990999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]8981333181833141833330404939414433310919807019294729444370604344294744433938434448574443315143333848334348384333384833434838[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_5_1]80704341[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_5_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_8]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_8]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_7_3]29074347[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_7_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_7_2]11194041[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_7_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_8]||結果如何\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_6]||d可能和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_15]||紅也無其他手段[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_26]||和[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_10] 先出將如何\u003F好像可以避免規則糾紛的和法\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_10]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_15]89843343848130408111091980701929472940307060434460504443111730311737314149394344373141423130425250605251[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_15][DhtmlXQ_comment31]規則如何判[/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_4]304083130919807019297060[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_4]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]