第017局卒擅天下少兵局

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-7 08:59:15

本帖最后由 chouzhouyu 于 2019-12-7 11:35 编辑

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]第017局卒擅天下少兵局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8699999959999999877989419999999938999999309999999960992548689999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]走了一路红车死挡黑炮的变化。因让黑炮有机会平到1-4路线，红无和棋希望。||||在我的收集到的新局贴子中有我对该局的拆解，当时是作为和棋的。昨天在直播间和许多人探讨。第9回合黑卒3平4是我开始拆解时没拆的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]如后车平六，卒３平４，车一平四（如车六平四，卒７平６，车四退一，卒５平６，帅四平五，车４平５，帅五平六，车５退７，车一平三，炮７平９，车三进一，卒４进１，车三平六，车５平４，车六平五，炮９进１，炮二进一，卒４进１，帅六平五，炮９平５，车五平四，卒４平５，车四平五，车４进５，车五进四，卒６平５，帅五平四，车４平６，炮二平四，车６进２，黑胜。），卒７平６，车四退二，卒５平６，帅四平五，卒６平５，帅五平四，炮７进９，车六退一，炮７平９，炮二进一，卒５平４，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]以这路为主变。把红车引到黑车和卒之间。||||其它变招是第一次拆棋作为和棋的。||||第二次拆解时发现了卒3平4的变化。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18]再次拆解时的应招。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]黑胜定，下略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_22]黑胜定，下略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_23]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_18]目的是不让黑卒平4。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_22]黑胜。下略。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_22]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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hzsjy · 发表于 2019-12-17 15:12:14

回47楼：
余先生的着法应该是正解了。我之前的着法没有想到还有那个”上夹板”的下法。
高明！

hzsjy · 发表于 2019-12-17 15:04:42

回54楼：
谢谢余先生。
此局是我二年前的拟着。现在看来错漏很多。还是要花大力气排演和推敲。
只是变化太多，不是能在短时间中可以搞定了。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-16 14:45:36

hzsjy 发表于 2019-12-15 12:29
不知楼主有无看过23楼的附件？
可怜我花了二个多月的时间！只有2次下载!
呜呜。。。。。。

再诠正一个变化

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]8699999959999999877989054199999938999999309999999960992425486899[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]卒擅天下改局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_author]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]原局为网友“棋在江湖 ”提供。原局红九路兵要退后一步还有一只七路原位兵。原局为和局，改之仍成和，只是将首着兵五进一这一路着法弄成了和棋，而掐死了后车平六的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31]红胜关键之着！[/DhtmlXQ_comment31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_49]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_49]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment35]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D55782%26page%3D2%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-16 12:26:18

这局的黑胜结论应该没问题。有些黑方的一些不好的走法我拟的主变中没有加入。主要还是一些残局局面有研究拆解的价值特意去变化一下。这局有很多技术性很高的实用残局。我感觉这局可以收录到一些教科书中。从这局中我也是学到了很多东西。

hzsjy · 发表于 2019-12-16 12:02:49

本帖最后由 hzsjy 于 2019-12-16 12:29 编辑

先回44楼：
又改了一下。[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]原局为网友“棋在江湖 ”提供。原局红九路兵要退后一步还有一只七路原位兵。原局为和局，改之仍成和，只是将首着兵五进一这一路着法弄成了和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29]和局。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_48]黑一将一闲，红是一捉一要杀，黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_66]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_66]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_48]黑一将一闲，红是一捉一要杀，黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_66]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_66]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_44]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_52]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_29]例和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_54]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_33]和局。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_31]和局。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_48]黑一将一闲，红是一捉一要杀，黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_76]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_76]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_45]黑一将一闲，红是一捉一要杀，黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_45]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20_39]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21_29]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22_48]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment23_42]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment24_52]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment24_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25_27]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26_37]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27_31]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27_31]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28_29]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29_46]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment30_48]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment30_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment31_42]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment31_42]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32_36]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment32_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33_34]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment33_34]
[DhtmlXQ_comment34_46]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment34_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35_30]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment35_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment36_29]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment36_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment37_35]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment37_35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38_48]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment38_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment39_46]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment39_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment40_38]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment40_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment41_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment41_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment42_55]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment42_55]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43_37]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43_37]
[DhtmlXQ_comment44_29]红胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment44_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment45_52]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment45_52]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-16 11:25:44

hzsjy 发表于 2019-12-15 12:29
不知楼主有无看过23楼的附件？
可怜我花了二个多月的时间！只有2次下载!
呜呜。。。。。。

附件中首着变化仍值得探讨，见44楼。

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-15 19:26:23

yjr123 发表于 2019-12-15 19:07
第10 回合车五进四才能和！沈老师的着法黑方不一定能胜，见46楼。

对啊，其它变化中一直想着去兑车，怎么这时忘了不去试一下了呢？

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-15 19:07:54

chouzhouyu 发表于 2019-12-15 16:40
16楼12回合红走炮八退一，后续后法我和你不一样。我拆解是和棋。

33楼11回合B变19回合我一下子看不 ...

第10 回合车五进四才能和！沈老师的着法黑方不一定能胜，见46楼。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_33_2]4246324246363536[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_33_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_30_3]2627[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_30_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4]262789813222423237321232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_27_5]897926271918271718083222080930310939376739091718424131324146323146441828444131324146323109392212391967374641313041403031404528384541313041403031[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_27_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26]下步红走法我和沈济英的分岐点。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]我的走法。红可进炮了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_61]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_36]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_30]黑要负。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_27]沈济英的走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_62]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_62]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_42_6]56462923321223133031131546564241313041421222155556575551222051713637717737367771[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_42_6][DhtmlXQ_comment44]云库胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment44]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D55782%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-15 16:42:18

你的附件我下载了。

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-15 16:40:56

hzsjy 发表于 2019-12-15 12:19
呵呵：
黑胜棋愣是往和走。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]少兵卒擅（讨论的变化）[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_33_2]4246324246363536[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_33_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_30_3]2627[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_30_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4]262789813222423237321232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_4]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment26]下步红走法我和沈济英的分岐点。[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]我的走法。红可进炮了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment61]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment61]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_36]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_30]黑要负。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_27]沈济英的走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_62]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_62]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
16楼12回合红走炮八退一，后续后法我和你不一样。我拆解是和棋。

33楼11回合B变19回合我一下子看不出是哪一步。36楼黑走弃卒是当做一路变化来走的。因很多人是选这路走法。所以特地拿来研究拆解。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-15 15:20:01

hzsjy 发表于 2019-12-15 14:51
接走卒2进1，炮七退一炮3平4，炮七进八炮4平1，炮七平三炮1退2，炮三平九卒２平３，
。。。。。。
黑 ...

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D55782%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

hzsjy · 发表于 2019-12-15 14:51:08

本帖最后由 hzsjy 于 2019-12-15 15:01 编辑

yjr123 发表于 2019-12-15 14:22
16楼12回合

接走卒2进1，炮七退一炮3平4，炮七进八炮4平1，炮七平三炮1退2，炮三平九卒２平３，
。。。。。。
黑胜。
这一路着法如有红九路兵就不成立了。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-15 14:49:10

hzsjy 发表于 2019-12-15 12:29
不知楼主有无看过23楼的附件？
可怜我花了二个多月的时间！只有2次下载!
呜呜。。。。。。

首着探讨

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]卒擅天下的改局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]8699999959999999877989054199999938999999309999999960992425486899[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_1_27_2]243426363424382859584101585701074939304039493637575840304945374745353040243407085859474835450809[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_27_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_29_3]4947363747453747595841014535304035450108585947483444403044343839[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_29_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_30_4]382859584101585701074737304037473637575840304743374743333040334307085859474843470809[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_30_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_3_30_5]38484745363745353040354541214543404134444838595821204333374733432028585947575949282043032040[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_30_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_26_6]41215958304049893848585725352434353689492141574736464757483849694656574740506963414063233828342456464737403023285040373846362434363738393738[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_26_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_26_7]41015958304049392526243438485857263639490141574736464757483849694656574740506963414063233828342456464737403023835051834351414344304044344636[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_26_7]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_26_8]3031493938395958[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_26_8]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_23_9]24344641474130404143252643333848330345460343465634444838595826364373363773785646787246477242384858594030424147574148373859495758[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_23_9]
[DhtmlXQ_move_9_28_10]45463444465659582526437326367375363775785646787246477242384858594030424147574148373859495758[/DhtmlXQ_move_9_28_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]原局为网友“棋在江湖 ”提供。原局红九路兵要退后一步还有一只七路原位兵。原局为和局，改之仍成和，只是将首着兵五进一这一路着法弄成了和棋，而掐死了后车平六的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]正着！[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_21]问题手？似应改走兵七进一[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_44]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_50]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_52]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_29]例和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_54]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_50]黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_50]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]沈济英[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-15 14:22:41

hzsjy 发表于 2019-12-15 12:19
呵呵：
黑胜棋愣是往和走。

16楼12回合

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4699999949999999991889999999999937999999309999999910992658999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

hzsjy · 发表于 2019-12-15 12:29:15

不知楼主有无看过23楼的附件？
可怜我花了二个多月的时间！只有2次下载!
呜呜。。。。。。

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-15 12:22:26

太厉害了。真想不出能这么赢

hzsjy · 发表于 2019-12-15 12:19:06

呵呵：
黑胜棋愣是往和走。

回33楼：
最后局面我看不出黑胜的走法。云库是和棋。
11回合的B变19回合红车平六胜。

回36楼：
第2回合黑走炮1退7。不是又回到我17楼中回你10楼的着法中去了吗？

回16楼12回合
12. 炮八退一炮２进２
13. 车五进六注：如红有九路兵，黑炮早前只能平2，不能平1，此时红有九路河口兵红兵就可进兵了。
　　　　　　　将４进１
14. 车五退一将４退１
15. 车五退一炮２平４
16. 炮一平二卒３进１
17. 炮八进一卒３平２
18. 炮八平九炮４平３
19. 炮九退一将４进１
20. 炮九平六车４平７
21. 炮六平九卒２进１
22. 车五进一将４进１
23. 车五退五将４退１
24. 车五进二卒２平３
25. 车五进三将４进１
26. 车五退五将４退１
27. 炮九平六炮３平２
28. 炮六平八车７平４
29. 车五进五将４退１
30. 车五进一将４进１
31. 车五退五卒３平４
32. 车五进四将４退１
33. 车五进一将４进１
从以上的着法中和注解可以看出红如有一只九路河口兵的重要性。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-15 11:06:59

chouzhouyu 发表于 2019-12-15 10:59
我接下去拆了一下，应该还是和吧。

http://www.chessdb.cn/query/?3k5/9/9/9/9/4R4/3r5/2p6/8c/4K3C%20b

切换残局库类型

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-15 10:59:06

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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4499999949999999997189999999999938999999309999999987992558999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_3]07084447393548492636515836374746082858593738[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4]指黑方这样弃卒换红一个炮。||||黑炮如果从中路进攻，红方来得及调动炮的位置。下面主要是黑炮从侧面进攻的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7]该步红走什么无关紧要。主要看后续走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]下面研究了一下，拟了一些变化。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红炮在这条线和这个点应该是最好的防守位置。||||前面怎么走不用管。可能会磨半天棋盘，先把红炮调到这个位置。||||红方走成这种阵势，黑炮如果从中路进攻，注意一下可以防守得住。黑炮如果从侧面进攻，防守需要一些技巧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]黑胜？[/DhtmlXQ_comment28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment32]再平移还原了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment32]
[DhtmlXQ_comment49]还是和吧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_41]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_41]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_27]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_14]黑炮如果这样从侧面进攻先走这步，红怎么办？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_24]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_24]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
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我接下去拆了一下，应该还是和吧。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-15 09:36:35

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]4499999949999999997189999999999938999999309999999987992558999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]少兵卒檀黑弃卒换红炮残局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]7101870701715859495938887111888959588939584825261151393848492627515838364948273758680727444527284849372768692888[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]07084447393548492636515836374746082858593738[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4]指黑方这样弃卒换红一个炮。||||黑炮如果从中路进攻，红方来得及调动炮的位置。下面主要是黑炮从侧面进攻的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7]该步红走什么无关紧要。主要看后续走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]下面研究了一下，拟了一些变化。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红炮在这条线和这个点应该是最好的防守位置。||||前面怎么走不用管。可能会磨半天棋盘，先把红炮调到这个位置。||||红方走成这种阵势，黑炮如果从中路进攻，注意一下可以防守得住。黑炮如果从侧面进攻，防守需要一些技巧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_27]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_14]黑炮如果这样从侧面进攻先走这步，红怎么办？[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_2]6869[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_2][DhtmlXQ_comment25]？应炮三退一[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_3]37386869[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_26_3][DhtmlXQ_comment28]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment28][DhtmlXQ_comment26]如卒4进1则和[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D55782%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-14 16:40:12

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[DhtmlXQ_title]少兵卒檀黑弃卒换红炮残局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]和局[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]4499999949999999997189999999999938999999309999999987992558999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]07084447393548492636515836374746082858593738[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4]指黑方这样弃卒换红一个炮。||||黑炮如果从中路进攻，红方来得及调动炮的位置。下面主要是黑炮从侧面进攻的着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7]该步红走什么无关紧要。主要看后续走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]下面研究了一下，拟了一些变化。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红炮在这条线和这个点应该是最好的防守位置。||||前面怎么走不用管。可能会磨半天棋盘，先把红炮调到这个位置。||||红方走成这种阵势，黑炮如果从中路进攻，注意一下可以防守得住。黑炮如果从侧面进攻，防守需要一些技巧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_14]黑炮如果这样从侧面进攻先走这步，红怎么办？[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-14 09:22:31

卒6进1，云库执黑很难取胜。昨天我和某主播下。他执黑马上这样走。而且红方好象也没有特别好的防守手段。红炮也不知放那个地方合适。放帅后或放中或车炮同线，感觉都不太行。昨天我执红参考云库，开始其实
是一直无结果。走到一定程度会出现黑胜的结论。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-14 08:35:43

11回合黑卒6进1最后局面云库和棋

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-14 00:50:54

结合我的拆解和各位老师们提出的一些意见。汇总后列了主要变化。
本局至此算告一段落。

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[DhtmlXQ_move_1_52_4]32628959303144456267453502323545674745473747[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_52_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_57_5]4544674744473747[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_57_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_55_6]4434023234446267080737380708384844485859495967695958696858596848[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_55_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_55_7]444131324143624243420242[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_55_7]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_52_8]328289840242443430403437828408098424090824293739585949482939[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_52_8]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_57_9]34324041[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_57_9]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_57_10]08098283343783844939584809298424292724142729141937271918272040412928181128214222[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_57_10]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_29_11]090132020161020061012627010838360809272809393639893900093937282937392939[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_29_11]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_29_12]09023835898126368111364642463242[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_29_12]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_17_13]0109171989193836[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_17_13]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_14]8788010938484448884809394841898730403933253587843536843436464939414433234443233346473444405044454344333447374535372739384449355550403444498955454050454889854445[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_14]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_15]87372535865668585658485859495848495960693738698979784838[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_1_15]
[DhtmlXQ_move_15_3_16]375768585758485859493848493948418666608066653536653541313545808179783637394981414555374755453136454158484959365678585658[/DhtmlXQ_move_15_3_16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0][FEN=3k5/9/5c3/4R4/3r5/9/9/9/5p3/C3K4 w - - 0 41]第一次拟的黑胜主变。目前为止感觉还是可用。[/FEN][/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10]这步可直接炮7进7。好处是红方可能会用车挡成习惯，下步黑炮再进时还会来挡。||||如果前面红方是用另外一个车来换卒，那么此时红车是在中相位，这步炮就不要去升到红兵线了，会导致黑方不能进卒会阻档炮平移。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13]也可不挡直接炮平九。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]当黑炮升到黑车和黑卒的横线之间时，红车不能再去挡炮了，黑再进炮后之后有卒3平4的棋，红再平炮后黑兑车，黑卒抢先占肋，黑胜。（还有一种情况是黑3卒再进了一步，兑车之后红炮借打卒可抢先占肋，但也是黑胜）。||单独列局面1介绍。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16]如炮９进１，炮九退八，车４平５，车五退四，炮９平５，炮九平六，和。单独列局面2介绍。[/DhtmlXQ_comment16]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]增加一回合，这里有个陷阱，黑炮特意不去拦红炮，如红炮九退八，炮２进２，炮一平八，车４退２，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]这次才同线挡。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment22]暂提前列。[/DhtmlXQ_comment22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment25]该步红走什么无关紧要。主要看后续走法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment27]至此黑优。理论上红有和棋黑也可胜希望。但下起来黑取胜很难，红求和也很难。黑取胜机会大大高于红求和的机会。||||该局面双方若无错是不是黑必胜局面？想不出和定的局面红方应该怎样摆。||||下面无固定走法。步数会特别长。[/DhtmlXQ_comment27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_22]黑主变胜法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_23]以上才是必走棋。黑方如果不想红车在那个点，第5回合可升炮到其它位置，如炮7进6。但红车在那个点，主要还是取决于红方，前面红方用那个车换卒和要不要去档炮有关。||||基本上是这种局面。红车可能在中线上某个点。红右炮也可能会在三路。||||不管何种局面，实质上一样，不影响后面的着法思路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]先进卒很是关键。如果先走退车的话，红车先进二占住好点，再退炮，黑可能有点问题。黑一退车没有了兑车的棋。而且红退炮后，黑炮也没有办法跟着升上来。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_24]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_25]最初拆解时这步是炮退七的。整理时走这步以示区别。两者区别应该不大。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_29]如炮九进八（红升炮准备平到二路还原。），炮４平１，炮九平三，炮１退２，炮三平九，卒３进１，炮九退七，车４退２，循环之后。黑又多进了一步卒。||||红九路炮在这个位置不动，防止卒下来。用另外两个子走闲。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_43]增加两个循环回合，说明一下原因：不拦炮黑炮平移后升到与车同线再平中，有连杀的棋。不让老将与炮紧捘，是不让黑车平移捉炮。||||至此黑方车卒已调整好位置。以上一段红方也没啥好棋可走。基本上照这个思路被动的顽强防守。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_43]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_51]这个局面开始，下面多列几路黑方车炮的过渡走法。因前面黑车卒调整位置时，红方是走闲为主的。红方右炮可能在不同的位置。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_52]这步不管红右炮在那个位置，应该可通用。要保证该路变化的正确。另两路变化是在红右炮在特殊位置时才用的。该局面其实车平7路快一点。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_67]红违例变招。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_69]如炮九退一，车９平３，炮一退五，卒４进１，炮九进一，卒４平５，车五退四，卒６平５，帅五进一，车３进２，帅五退一，车３平１，黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_69]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_82]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_82]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_80]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_80]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_52]这样过渡快一点。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_62]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_62]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_70]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_70]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]实战后认为红车如果来将，将上顶最好。下步直接兑车。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_60]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_60]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_52]这路变招当做红炮刚好在三路，黑车平7路捉炮时刚好可以升炮。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_52]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_66]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_66]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_58]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_58]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_76]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_76]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_29]红升炮准备平到二路还原。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_36]循环之后。黑后多进了一步卒。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_46]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_46]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_36]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_20]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_21]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15_14]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_32]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-12 22:09:00

对，有道理。

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-12 18:16:36

chouzhouyu 发表于 2019-12-11 20:57
这个局面如果黑方选择炮退底的话肯定能够走成，红车在那个中兵位很特殊。黑3路卒好象只能进一步就被迫中 ...

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_11_8_6]1939123239092627897927287989324246422838[/DhtmlXQ_move_11_8_6]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_6_10_8]464030313909262740413130414030314043373609082737434131304142320242403031404131304142020442403031404131304144[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_10_8]
[DhtmlXQ_move_11_6_9]46432627897937367989101289792737798936328979326279593031434462674445674745473747[/DhtmlXQ_move_11_6_9]
[DhtmlXQ_move_9_18_10]1819[/DhtmlXQ_move_9_18_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]这个局面重点研究一下。红车在这个位置有点特殊。||||原先的黑胜着法红车都脱离了这个位置。而且这个局面肯定能够走成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_4]这一循环可能很有用。目前还不清楚。主要是红炮如退底，黑炮必须马上进2。后面平士角再后面给黑炮平边借红炮作炮架的杀招预先做一下准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_5]这步不管先炮进2还是先进卒一样。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_6]这步是沈济英提出的，认为可能和。我就接下去拆了一上，感觉黑方取胜是难。||||回16楼：||红12回合可走炮八退一，后面着法是和局，但变化依然复杂。这和上面的黑胜结论就矛盾了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_48]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_23]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_20]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_8]红车在那个位置还是不动。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_19]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_36]相同局面。黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_25]黑胜实战。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_25]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_11]01080010081825261819101246403031404131304142123219123735898126361219364681893536190930310929465642413130414256462923321223133031131546564241313041421222155556575551222051713637717737367771[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]车占要道，再退炮底线，可能和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]这步退车的位置是否有问题。||||yjr123注：||退车到其他位置也有问题[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D55782%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123 · 发表于 2019-12-12 18:16:36

chouzhouyu 发表于 2019-12-11 20:57
这个局面如果黑方选择炮退底的话肯定能够走成，红车在那个中兵位很特殊。黑3路卒好象只能进一步就被迫中 ...

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4699999949999999990189999999999938999999309999999900992558999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_11_38_1]1519565741453637454030314041313019143747414757478988584849594757[/DhtmlXQ_move_11_38_1]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_9_18_10]1819[/DhtmlXQ_move_9_18_10]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]这个局面重点研究一下。红车在这个位置有点特殊。||||原先的黑胜着法红车都脱离了这个位置。而且这个局面肯定能够走成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]这步退车的位置是否有问题。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_4]这一循环可能很有用。目前还不清楚。主要是红炮如退底，黑炮必须马上进2。后面平士角再后面给黑炮平边借红炮作炮架的杀招预先做一下准备。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_5]这步不管先炮进2还是先进卒一样。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_6]这步是沈济英提出的，认为可能和。我就接下去拆了一上，感觉黑方取胜是难。||||回16楼：||红12回合可走炮八退一，后面着法是和局，但变化依然复杂。这和上面的黑胜结论就矛盾了。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_48]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_23]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_23]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_20]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_8]红车在那个位置还是不动。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_19]黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_19]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_36]相同局面。黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_36]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_25]黑胜实战。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_25]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_11]01080010081825261819101246403031404131304142123219123735898126361219364681893536190930310929465642413130414256462923321223133031131546564241313041421222155556575551222051713637717737367771[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_11][DhtmlXQ_comment2]车占要道，再退炮底线，可能和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D55782[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-12 17:31:16

谢谢余老师和沈老师提出的一些改进招法。

chouzhouyu · 发表于 2019-12-12 17:30:26

25楼是把该局定位黑胜之后。最后双方想怎么快一点胡乱下了一下，很随意。最开始拆解时因为红方没有办法阻止黑方调整车卒的位置。红炮就一直放在二路线防止黑卒往下走。沈济英提了红方可炮八退一走和后我就分析了一下这对局。感觉车4退1有问题。

当时发贴时还不知道是那步有问题。后来发现车4退1有问题后就在原贴上重新编辑了一下，在那里加了个说明。

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