改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称。各位老师，请您指教。谢谢！

sdndsx

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999932999999999999995199999999309999379999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35035%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

无心恋

红先胜
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999932999999999999995199999999309999379999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]改局（小局）棋子相同，上下对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]3253304051414050537458487462[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26mobile%3Dno[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

sdndsx

无心恋  聨吟客 两位老师的跟帖！

我坦白：原局是这样的：

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999953999999999999995199999999409999379999999999999948[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26page%3D1%26extra%3D%23pid263029[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

sdndsx

吐槽一下——

问：原局已是经典。你为何还要改局？
答：因为我有幻想——那就是：子力相同，上下对称，红黑任选！
问：不可理喻！
答：我也觉得是这样的！
问：你想干什么？
答：我的想法是：这种体裁，正确的结论有 红先胜、红先和、红先负。不论哪一种结论，最起码做到了——红黑任选。
问：又能怎样？
答：即便是：错的离谱！作为一种特殊体裁（不是很多），能够引起创作热情就可。
问：你说的不对吧，之前已有经典：如 盲公顶棍，依样画葫芦 等等。
答：您说得对！毕竟创新的局面有待开发。就算是抛装引玉吧。

sdndsx

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-21 12:26

6楼的棋图的错误已更正了。谢谢您！

一杯红酒

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-21 12:22

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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
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[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9945999959999999999999419999999999449999309999999999994899999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4564[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]红胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
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一杯红酒

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]完全对称，双方都有机会，最少子排局(正和局)，可以红黑任选！[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_table][/DhtmlXQ_table]
[DhtmlXQ_red]象棋爱好者[/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam]
[DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_black]小虫象棋（旗舰版）        (无敌)[/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam]
[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]7099999938999999999999319999999919999999519999999999995899999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

一杯红酒

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称 (正和)[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_table][/DhtmlXQ_table]
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[DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam]
[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9947999959999999999999419999999999429999309999999999994899999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

石川铃华老湿

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949489999999999449999994399999999404199999999994699999945[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称 (正和)[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

石川铃华老湿

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949999999999999449999999999999999409999999999994599999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称 (正和)[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

石川铃华老湿

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999959999999439999449999999999999999309999994699994599999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称 (正和)[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

sdndsx

非常感谢 一杯红酒 和 石川铃华老湿 两位老师！

您的创意红黑任选，我喜欢！

6楼的局面还有没有改进的空间啊。渴盼老师们的的建议。通过添加 兵和卒 会有什么结论啊！

1963

这种双方2、3个子的对称局面多得很，一点意义也没有！

sdndsx

谢谢 1963和聨吟客 两位老师 的关注！

学生我向老师们汇报一下我的思路。

1 着法难度不够，就没有太大的意义。我赞同！
2 着法难度不小，意义就大了。我就崇拜啦！
3 6楼的局面，正确结论是红先胜，着法难度就不算太小（走得不对，就会有 和棋或败局）。老师们解解看。
4 1楼的尝试，作为 思路，就算是 激发一下 创意吧。老师们，您得包涵！

杨启忠

聨吟客 发表于 2015-12-21 21:37

陈兄，看看这样如何?(我在论坛上发过类似的马兵对马卒小局)

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9945999959999999999999419999999999449999309999999999994899999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title] 棋子相同 对称[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4564446364564838563563425958423435143442585742215747382814222838224321424362382862504223503123354757283831103543575838285848283848493828413130401022[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]红胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment1]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]然後呢[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_1]3413143313343352344258573828574728385244425444325466475766455747453332113321112321422342[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_10_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_22_2]544232114221112321422342[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_22_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_3]42341433382833523442574728385244425444325466475766455747453332113321112321422342[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_4]4261415161826250826351416344413130405062382831414030624344234322[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_4]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

sdndsx

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999939999953999999999999995199999999409999379999999999999948[/DhtmlXQ_binit][DhtmlXQ_title] 兵强马壮[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]53324030321330311321313251414858393858684151685821005868001268581220323151413130200158680122[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1]必须的。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1][DhtmlXQ_comment3]精准！||||取胜唯一着法。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3][DhtmlXQ_comment4]顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]3040132140305141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_7]黑马被拴住，红方胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_7][DhtmlXQ_comment1_4]不够顽强。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_4][DhtmlXQ_comment5]卧槽点位很重要。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5][DhtmlXQ_comment6]退将更糟。红方兵四平五，黑马被栓牢。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6][DhtmlXQ_comment7]好棋！||||控制住黑方的将和马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment7][DhtmlXQ_comment8]此时只有黑卒可动。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8][DhtmlXQ_comment9]红帅趁机贴住黑马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9][DhtmlXQ_comment11]绝妙！||||红兵如果停留在九宫中心，黑将会有平中路捉卒弃马的机会。[/DhtmlXQ_comment11][DhtmlXQ_comment13]非常精准！||||取胜的关键着法。||||注意：||此时如果红兵还在宫心，黑将可以平中捉卒弃马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment13][DhtmlXQ_comment15]好棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15][DhtmlXQ_comment17]精彩！||||红马到此处，取胜的关键。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17][DhtmlXQ_comment18]黑将平中会丢马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment18][DhtmlXQ_comment21]正确。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21][DhtmlXQ_comment23]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3D%26page%3D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

sdndsx

27楼还有不少的变化。而且有的还暗含单双步数。

这样结果如何。
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949999944999999999999995199999999409999459999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26page%3D1%26extra%3D%23pid263216[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

杨启忠

sdndsx 发表于 2015-12-23 10:12
27楼还有不少的变化。而且有的还暗含单双步数。

这样结果如何。

供时老师参考：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999949999944999999999999995199999999409999459999999999999958[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_red] [/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_black] [/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]442358684948687823117868113240305141453332113321112321422342[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]4030514145334939[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35041%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

sdndsx

谢谢 杨启忠 老师！

27楼的胜法很巧妙（跟帖探讨的不多）！但不是 红黑任选。我就想：不论是什么结论，正变也好，劣变也好，巧妙着法能够保留就好！

红黑任选，又能怎样？

我的幻想是：

1 先负后胜。这种排局的创作不是很多。
2 先和后胜。这种排局的创作也不是很多。
3 先胜后负（废话！普通连将胜排局就能做到）。但我认为：能做到可以 红黑任选，也是好的。