试试您的残局功力--老兵新传

不老松

QUOTE:

以下是引用凌云子在2008-9-7 11:52:00的发言：

有不同观点，无论是胜是和都用用图演示吧。

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-9 16:21:19编辑过]

凌云子

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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凌云子

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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不老松

凌云君,对不起,电脑出了点问题,不听指挥,答不对题.请看看59楼对不对?再帖一下.

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-9 17:11:08编辑过]

yjr123

错得离谱，看看53楼关于此变的注解和62楼，再不明白也没有办法了。

不老松

QUOTE:

以下是引用yjr123在2008-9-9 17:20:00的发言：
错得离谱，看看53楼关于此变的注解和62楼，再不明白也没有办法了。

yjr123:我是对39楼答的,您53楼巳有定论,证明您不上兵也可更好取胜,而39楼认为杨老上兵胜法不能成立,我试答.何来错得离谱,太伤人了!

凌云子

看看63楼还有关于兵四平五此变的注解，再不明白也没有办法了。

yjr123

QUOTE:

以下是引用不老松在2008-9-9 17:50:00的发言：

yjr123:我是对39楼答的,您53楼巳有定论,证明您不上兵也可更好取胜,而39楼认为杨老上兵胜法不能成立,我试答.何来错得离谱,太伤人了!

并不是伤人，因为53楼已经有下底兵后黑方如何求和的要领，注解得很详细，所以你的拟着应该黑方按照我说的原则来走，你用红方的妙着来破，这样才能讨论下去，如果黑方仍然乱走，如何才能讨论出结果？

不老松

QUOTE:

以下是引用凌云子在2008-9-9 17:53:00的发言：
看看63楼还有关于兵四平五此变的注解，再不明白也没有办法了。

很对对不起,由于电脑故障,漏看了62,63,帖子,没有发觉自己的错处,您们的批评是好的,今后还请多多帮助!

yjr123

呵呵，你电脑的故障很严重，到现在还没有看完全几个主要的贴子。

凌云子

总结：

杨官磷特级大师的"老兵新传" ！

-----------------------------

23楼yjr123先生的胜法！

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53楼yjr123先生的胜法！

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]2907566612146656144452414442413042623041514132416261[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]守和定式，士已经无用。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_12]正中间的连三卒不能守和，应该偏一路连卒才是守和定式。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_12]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment13]红方胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]妙着！||||原着法走兵四进一，凌云子发现黑方可以巧和！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]进底兵给黑方巧和机会。应直接车五平三可胜！||||以下着法为凌云子拟着[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
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----------------------

其它类似走法！

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]290756661211313011103031106046566062524162426676424441304424[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_8_10_1]3241514131416252[/DhtmlXQ_move_8_10_1]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_2_6_3]32416062313051415241626030316061[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_6_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_6_4]524129073626602026362021313051413241214156664146[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_6_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_4_8_5]415260625241514132416261[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_8_5]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_10_6]4636424556664525415225656676655576665552[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_10_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_12_7]41304262304151413241[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_12_7]
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语苛经历

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]2907566612146656144452414442413042623041514132416261[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]守和定式，士已经无用。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_12]正中间的连三卒不能守和，应该偏一路连卒才是守和定式。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_12]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_13_2]50403141403036466232[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_13_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_17_3]63233141233336463332[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_17_3]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment13]红方胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]妙着！||||原着法走兵四进一，凌云子发现黑方可以巧和！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]进底兵给黑方巧和机会。应直接车五平三可胜！||||以下着法为凌云子拟着[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_9]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

按此图的胜法，红就不是老兵了。所以“老兵新传”这名称也就不贴切了。

667

◆龍游淺水遭蝦戲◆

 

　　如图，黑方单车士象全再加上一只高卒，可谓进可攻退可守；而红方三只小兵横摆在四、五、六路，则是最容易被车方所破的不良阵式。不过，还好的是，红方有仕相全防卫，后防尚可自保。虽然不久之后双相被歼，但是红兵却借机布置好正确的防守阵容。黑车虽从正、侧面发动攻势，但红方只把小兵左右移动，耍得黑车像没头苍蝇似的团团转，又似蛟龙落在浅水滩被群虾戏耍般，实是莫可奈何。
     

 

　　本局出自已故杨官璘前辈编著的《象棋春秋》，以及《弈苑英华——杨官璘象棋杂谈》二谱。
     

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[DhtmlXQ_adddate]2007-08-26 00:00:00[/DhtmlXQ_adddate]
[DhtmlXQ_title]◆龙游浅水遭虾戏◆[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_date]2007-08-26[/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_author]东萍公司[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]33234656233356663323667623337677332377782333786849596777332377785949685847657879658779894859586839486878433389695343696749396787394978684939685839498717483917473948415149396082435347073949514153438260483941513948074749394745435345153949514153434151435315194839191639481619483958594948193953433935484751414748354548584555584841514847554547375141373841314353454438374445373845472313608213235949231347451323826038374939373839293837454823134849132331415343[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment28]||　　以上一段着法，是车卒破双兵仕相全的必经『公式』。[/DhtmlXQ_comment28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment113]||（和棋）[/DhtmlXQ_comment113]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_71_1]495919395958394923134946[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_71_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_71]||劣着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_71]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_76]||黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_76]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_53_2]4353074759484745231358594959455559495553[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_53_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_53]||劣着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_62]||黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_62]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_57_3]3343585949594543[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_57_3]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_60]||黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_60]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_55_4]39485859495947482313484513234555[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_55_4]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_62]||黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_62]
[DhtmlXQ_comment47]||　　红帅坐正，正着。如改走兵四平五？则负。[/DhtmlXQ_comment47]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_47_5]53430709393851414353413153438260231309191323192923132002435329255343253548373515132315183839181939381959231359491323494543534535534331412313584838483533[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_47_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_47]||劣着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_47]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_84]||黑胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_84]
[DhtmlXQ_comment43]||　　红出帅，正着。如误走兵五平四？则负。[/DhtmlXQ_comment43]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_43_6]435358594959475759495753[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_43_6]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_48]||黑胜定。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_48]
[DhtmlXQ_comment29]||　　此时红方虽然失去双相，但是把黑方的高卒变成低卒，从而削弱了黑卒的威力，同时把己方的防守阵容摆好。所以，红方失去双相的损失，是得到补偿的，黑方并没占到便宜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]||　　如图，黑方单车士象全再加上一只高卒，可谓进可攻退可守；而红方三只小兵横摆在四、五、六路，则是最容易被车方所破的不良阵式。不过，还好的是，红方有仕相全防卫，后防尚可自保。虽然不久之后双相被歼，但是红兵却借机布置好正确的防守阵容。黑车虽从正、侧面发动攻势，但红方只把小兵左右移动，耍得黑车像没头苍蝇似的团团转，又似蛟龙落在浅水滩被群虾戏耍般，实是莫可奈何。||||　　本局出自已故杨官璘前辈编著的《象棋春秋》，以及《弈苑英华——杨官璘象棋杂谈》二谱。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
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[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-10 1:53:31编辑过]

语苛经历

没图啊。

凌云子

楼主发新贴意义不大，71楼3图的变着麻烦你好好看看。

 

yjr123

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[DhtmlXQ_title]杨官磷的\u0022老兵新传\u0022 [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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不老松

QUOTE:

以下是引用凌云子在2008-9-11 13:08:00的发言：

楼主发新贴意义不大，71楼3图的变着麻烦你好好看看。

凌云君:我真没看您71楼3图,不然我就不会发"另一"帖了,否则我就成抄袭犯了,哈哈.

不过我是这样想的:像我这样"等闲"之辈,也能想出的棋步,为什么赫赫有名大师竟没想到,而要"老兵"作"新传"?真令人费解!

yjr123

QUOTE:

以下是引用不老松在2008-9-12 7:25:00的发言：

凌云君:我真没看您71楼3图,不然我就不会发"另一"帖了,否则我就成抄袭犯了,哈哈.

不过我是这样想的:像我这样"等闲"之辈,也能想出的棋步,为什么赫赫有名大师竟没想到,而要"老兵"作"新传"?真令人费解!

呵呵，你看贴确实不够仔细，但又喜欢下结论。

你或凌云子的着法还有疑问，我已经将着法贴出了，不知道看过没有？

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-12 12:04:55编辑过]

凌云子

QUOTE:

以下是引用不老松在2008-9-12 7:25:00的发言：

凌云君:我真没看您71楼3图,不然我就不会发"另一"帖了,否则我就成抄袭犯了,哈哈.

不过我是这样想的:像我这样"等闲"之辈,也能想出的棋步,为什么赫赫有名大师竟没想到,而要"老兵"作"新传"?真令人费解!

看看73楼就知道杨已经晓得三高卒巧和车底兵，

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-12 13:13:29编辑过]

语苛经历

QUOTE:

以下是引用不老松在2008-9-12 7:25:00的发言：

像我这样"等闲"之辈,也能想出的棋步,为什么赫赫有名大师竟没想到,而要"老兵"作"新传"?真令人费解!

很多残局经过了这样的过程：
1、发现一个值得研究的待审局面，经过思索拆解，得出一个结论。
2、在此结论基础上研究，发现新的着法。
3、修订了原着法。

人们在思索一个局面时，往往出现这样的现象：结论符合自己的预期目标时，思绪会停顿。就此局来说，当经过拆解，把看上去和棋的局面拆解出“红胜”的预期目标时，思绪会停顿。现在发表的一些排局作品，之所以出错，主要是这个原因。所以排局家总结出一个重要方法：创作出一个排局作品，先不投稿，而是放一段时间，等思潮冷却了，回头再看，再研，如此经过几回冷却，成功率就会大大提高。

语苛经历

另外，某些局面把低兵走成老兵，反而有利，是象棋的一种逆向思维，在当时的时代也是一种突破。
据说现在高中生的物理水平已超过牛顿，但牛顿是物理学的划时代人物。
杨老则是象棋界划时代的人物。

不老松

QUOTE:

以下是引用yjr123在2008-9-7 17:53:00的发言：

强调一下，这并不是什么捷径取胜法，因为着法总长度并不比杨老的着法短。

下面把胜和着法改进之后合并贴出，有不同观点也请用棋图演示，因为有可能分析的形势牛头不对马嘴。

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]守和定式，士已经无用。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_12]正中间的连三卒不能守和，应该偏一路连卒才是守和定式。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_12]
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答yjr123君:先生大概健忘了,您在"试试您的残局功力"主题帖53楼帖子中,演出取胜着法,受到肯定与赞扬,但在9月11日不老松的"老兵新传"另一着法主题中,以殊途同归的方式,重现了您的胜法,可是接着在2楼您的帖子,完全否定了这一着法,也就否定了您自己的着法,见下图.如有冒犯,向您赔礼!

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment26]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_22]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_22]
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QUOTE:

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-19 8:33:23编辑过]

yjr123

楼上２局，哪个局面相同了？

不老松

QUOTE:

以下是引用yjr123在2008-9-19 9:38:00的发言：

楼上２局，哪个局面相同了？

您53楼最后的形势不能成立,请看下图:

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-19 12:53:56编辑过]

凌云子

是低兵，不是老兵所以能胜。

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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下底兵的胜法无法成立！

残影棋魂

黑士不动和其吧？