水中捞月···邢春波拟局

邢春波

以下是我对这个棋例判定的理解和认识，在棋图的着法之中，请大家指教
例一
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round]
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[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749488799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]49594454594954444959445459495444495944471113303113333141333047773040[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]双方不变作和，理由就是39||楼杨启忠老师提到的棋例通则26.2歀：守和方只有一个进攻子力时，占据守和要点，附带产生的捉士象按闲处理。||如何理解可续走看其结果[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红抢占中路胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

例二
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749398799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]495944545949544449594454594954441113444749593031[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑车一将一捉不变判负，如何理解依然可以接走看其结果[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12]红白丢中相无法抢占中路。所以黑车6平5判捉，因其是带将吃相，不会因吃相会对自己造成不利。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

杨启忠

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-7 21:19
以下是我对这个棋例判定的理解和认识，在棋图的着法之中，请大家指教
例一

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749398799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]495944545949544449594454594954444959445459495444[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12]此时循环达3次，应对这个棋例进行判定。至于5回合红退车让黑白吃相后出现的结果，不在此棋例内。故根据棋例通则26.2款本楼判和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D3[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

邢春波

杨启忠 发表于 2015-10-8 20:45

不是太明白杨老师的意思，循环达3次属于待判局面，红退车是对这个判定的解释。棋例通则26.2款是：守和方只有一个进攻子力时，占据守和要点，附带产生的捉士象按闲处理。怎样理解附带产生的捉士象是关键，例一毫无争议是附带的捉，因黑车不敢吃相。而例二是敢带将吃相的，应判捉，此棋例曾向裁判请教过，也判黑一将一捉。

杨启忠

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-8 21:27
不是太明白杨老师的意思，循环达3次属于待判局面，红退车是对这个判定的解释。棋例通则26.2款是：守和方只 ...

对棋例的判定，我十分外行，不太了解，实在抱歉！邢春波老师应该是正确的。

聨吟客

我仍認為敢不敢吃相不是重點,黑方目的是佔據要點守和,不這麼走就無法守和,應該請教多幾位國家級裁判解說看看

聨吟客

規則條文只說附帶捉士相判和, 並沒有說敢吃判負,  不敢吃 判和,呵呵呵,  不需要做過多的解釋吧?

除非 規則修訂加上這些條文 ,那我也樂觀其成

聨吟客

邢兄61之第2圖與62樓的局面相同但判決卻矛盾了,呵呵呵

zhaodi

61楼第一图，黑第一回合除去车5平6，还可走车5平4和车5退2，可和。
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749488799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]49594454594954444959445459495444495944471113303113333141333047773040[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]双方不变作和，理由就是39||楼杨启忠老师提到的棋例通则26.2歀：守和方只有一个进攻子力时，占据守和要点，附带产生的捉士象按闲处理。||如何理解可续走看其结果[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17]红抢占中路胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment17]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]4434[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]4442[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D3[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

第2图，黑第一回合可走车5退2，可和。

yjr123

邢春波

zhaodi 发表于 2015-10-9 15:52
61楼第一图，黑第一回合除去车5平6，还可走车5平4和车5退2，可和。

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749488799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]49594434111030311040[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]444211214252594952424959[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2][DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]4454[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]||||红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment5][DhtmlXQ_comment2_7]||||还要这样[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_7]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26page%3D3%23lastpost[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749398799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4959444211214252594952424959[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7]||||还要一将一捉[/DhtmlXQ_comment7]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26page%3D3%23lastpost[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

邢春波

聨吟客 发表于 2015-10-9 12:50
規則條文只說附帶捉士相判和, 並沒有說敢吃判負,  不敢吃 判和,呵呵呵,  不需要做過多的解釋吧?

除非  ...

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4699994849999999999999999999999964994232509999999999993599999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4656504056464050[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4]红一将一捉[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客

忘了還有47.48樓變化[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749398799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]49594442112142722120303120407271[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_7]||||还要一将一捉[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_7]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1]4252594952424959[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_4_1][DhtmlXQ_comment8]!! 應可和[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D3[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-9 19:24

喔喔喔................大陸規則真的太複雜,但是69樓的2圖也是能吃象,為何又判和局呢?

聨吟客

還有54與55樓局末該如何判?

邢春波

聨吟客 发表于 2015-10-9 20:04
還有54與55樓局末該如何判?

69楼2图与例一相同
54楼与55楼要看黑能不能吃相，能吃判捉不能吃判闲
例如
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]4599993738489999999999999999999947460241405042999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]45424030[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment2]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

聨吟客

聨吟客 发表于 2015-10-9 20:00
喔喔喔................大陸規則真的太複雜,但是69樓的2圖也是能吃象,為何又判和局呢?

  喔,看錯了, 69 樓2圖不能吃象,所以判和

聨吟客

那54與55樓也不能吃相應判和囉?

zhaodi

邢春波 发表于 2015-10-9 19:16

回复70楼

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]1199473749488799999999509999999944999999309999999999999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]水中捞月···邢春波拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]495944341110303110403454594954514020515448575444[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]444211214252594952424959[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]4454[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_2_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5]||||红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_7]||||还要这样[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_7]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D34822%26page%3D3%23pid260319[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

第二图见72楼。