《炮兵残局探秘》部分棋局再讨论

天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-3 16:29:01

欢迎大家提出意见和建议！

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-4 10:26:55

天宇浪人发表于 2016-3-3 16:27
第3页图三增加一枚黑炮，着法增加3回合，我觉得是值得的：

1，可否把增加的黑炮换做黑马？
2，可否把黑将退后一步？

天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-4 12:21:49

zbz719 发表于 2016-3-4 10:26
1，可否把增加的黑炮换做黑马？
2，可否把黑将退后一步？

保柱兄好！

请问这两点修改的目的是什么？

古婺 · 发表于 2016-3-4 19:43:11

本帖最后由古婺于 2016-3-4 20:02 编辑

哦噢噢噢噢

天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-4 20:05:44

呵呵，古婺兄这个妙！

古婺 · 发表于 2016-3-4 20:16:30

进兵杀，有漏洞，要修改下

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-4 20:25:51

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[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-4 20:26:40

本帖最后由 zbz719 于 2016-3-4 20:38 编辑

楼上有误，有速胜

凌云子 · 发表于 2016-3-4 20:43:16

天宇浪人发表于 2016-2-29 10:23
全书开篇第一局（第2页），其本身就是从实战提炼出来的，改成下图可增加回合数：

http://www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum ... ;tid=35180#lastpost

第7局结尾能和吧？

天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-4 20:53:45

凌云子发表于 2016-3-4 20:43
http://www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=35180#lastpost

第7局结尾能和吧？

查pai的残局库，这个是和局。

凌云子 · 发表于 2016-3-4 21:50:21

嗯嗯，收到！我也感觉能和！

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-4 22:56:08

俊杰的棋还真不好改，顾了头顾不了尾，研究半天，晕头转向了

睡觉了，明天来看

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-5 09:14:09

本帖最后由 zbz719 于 2016-3-5 19:55 编辑

不成立，重新修改

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-5 09:17:30

本帖最后由 zbz719 于 2016-3-5 17:09 编辑

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[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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应为和棋。

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-5 09:24:03

本帖最后由 zbz719 于 2016-3-5 17:06 编辑

应该这样红可胜。还有提高空间。[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-5 19:57:16

本帖最后由 zbz719 于 2016-3-5 20:26 编辑

待整理，彻底晕了：）

天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-7 09:34:27

按照古婺兄的思路，对“雷池莫越”局进行了修改，不知是否成立？回合数相对少了点，看看能否再改进？
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]nnnnnn593948nnnnnn8362nn718170nn4132nnnn313060494051nnnn84nnnnnn[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment69]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment69]
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yjr123 · 发表于 2016-3-7 10:48:30

这样需要几个回合？
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
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[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D35233%26extra%3Dpage%253D1%26page%3D2[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-7 11:05:41

yjr123 发表于 2016-3-7 10:48
这样需要几个回合？

这样是不是殊途同归？（另外不好意思余兄，刚刚不小心在你的回帖中点了个“反对”，也不知道怎么消去）
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[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
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yjr123 · 发表于 2016-3-7 13:19:52

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[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment36]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_3]687850607888607088897050897950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_40_3]
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天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-7 13:45:08

嗯，看来此局后半部分的着法应以余老师所拟的为准，谢谢！
现在再来看看开头部分的布子、着法还有提高的空间吗？

yjr123 · 发表于 2016-3-7 14:01:15

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]红胜。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_51]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]62618485834340504313857513105040104075654050[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]831385751310756510406555706055566070565770805758807058594060596970806979[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_3_1]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_3]75651050657570607565607065755060758570808575604075654050657550607585607085867050867650607686607086877050877750607778[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_3]
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天宇浪人 · 发表于 2016-3-7 14:33:55

嗯，看来精确的走法应该是余老师指出的，再次感谢！
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[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]626184858343405043138575131050401040756540506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979708079694050697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]
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zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-7 19:10:54

厉害！佩服一下！修改此局的难点在于保留原局红炮收掉黑卒的精彩招法的同时给开局加个好头！

双仕困马是个好主意！平炮中路打一步车细腻之极，硬是争得一先，颇得法，令人赞赏！
至此此局应该很完美了，如果再要锦上添花，感觉可以把红炮先置于黑底线，然后加一点弃兵引离等手段将红炮翻出，然后再除车打入，最后演一场捉卒好戏！

zbz719 · 发表于 2016-3-7 19:22:34

类如这样（没细考，只是一个思路）：
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999995061997181704241539999313060494051329985999957[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.dpxq.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.dpxq.com/hldcg/search/mini.asp[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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聨吟客 · 发表于 2016-3-7 19:36:18

這樣是否速勝
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_type]残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]和。||[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]62618485834340504349857548577565594865553938555638375666495966677060676860506858592958682928686948396959285859495851[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]这样需要几个回合？[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_36]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_5_2]43138575131050401040756540506575706075656070657550607585708085756040756540506575506075856070858670508676506076866070868770508777506077786040786840506869807069795060798960408979708079694050697950607989607089797079[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_5_2]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_9]28296979483979692969[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_25_9][DhtmlXQ_comment11]!![/DhtmlXQ_comment11][DhtmlXQ_comment5]!![/DhtmlXQ_comment5]
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yjr123 · 发表于 2016-3-7 19:51:39

聨吟客发表于 2016-3-7 19:36
這樣是否速勝

速胜正确

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999995939489999998362997181709941329999313060494051999984999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雷池莫越[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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聨吟客 · 发表于 2016-3-7 20:27:08

嗯

55樓的邊卒快一步平到6路, 紅好像難勝?

古婺 · 发表于 2016-3-7 22:27:57

此局修改非常不容易，我尝试了很多种方案，红双士困马的类似方案也试过，感觉还没有突破原局的高度，

伤脑筋啊。炮在进底线之前，如果留兵，要防止进兵双炮杀，或炮压将头的杀法，还有炮平二路进兵再进炮的杀法，这些在修改的过程中都要考虑到的，

667 · 发表于 2016-3-7 23:00:52

你喊点，我也点了反对，不知道怎么撤销

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