排局研究------困子宽紧胜局“原地待命”

迟暮寒士 · 发表于 2014-7-28 20:01:04

网友【半路浅唱】贴出过一则困子局“原地待命”，我觉得该局挺好，就多用心研究一下。原局是和棋，我现依照原局，编拟一局红胜局，如下： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_title]C-原地待命（19±）[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event] [DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date] [DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place] [DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round] [DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red] [DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam] [DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black] [DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam] [DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark] [DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9963994837999999998087346271859940236050325299415142612977838699[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule] [DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype] [DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype] [/DhtmlXQ] 本局不难，请网友们试解一下，看看红方是否能胜。

yjr123 · 发表于 2014-7-28 20:20:45

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迟暮寒士 · 发表于 2014-7-28 22:15:35

[/quote] 余老师真行，用这样拐弯抹角的办法速胜，太意外了了。把开始局面摆成如下形式，看看能否堵住意料之外的歪门邪道。红先胜 [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event] [DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date] [DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place] [DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round] [DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red] [DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam] [DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black] [DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam] [DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark] [DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9963994837999999998087213262718540126050305299415139612977838699[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule] [DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype] [DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype] [/DhtmlXQ]

平原一刀 · 发表于 2014-7-30 23:48:53

很有难度，一时三刻难解开

聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 06:36:40

走錯所以刪除

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-7-31 08:26:05

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yjr123 · 发表于 2014-7-31 08:31:52

象棋法官发表于 2014-7-31 08:26

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迟暮寒士 · 发表于 2014-7-31 08:57:38

[/quote] 回复6#象棋法官：末尾杀法正确，但第8步黑卒1进1吃兵不是最顽强的着法。

迟暮寒士 · 发表于 2014-7-31 09:00:11

[/quote]回复7#yjr123：黑有两种最王强的着法，第4步，黑前卒平8，是最顽强的着法之一。

迟暮寒士 · 发表于 2014-7-31 09:18:36

贴出原局，供参考。原局着法多处不当，下面着法是我重新编辑的。 [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_title]D-原地待命（15±）【半路浅唱帖】[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event] [DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date] [DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place] [DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round] [DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red] [DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam] [DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black] [DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam] [DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark] [DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9963999939999999990170346271999940236050325299415142614869838599[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]34333231333231303231233163428586010969590959484939384959383959493938495938395949393849593839596939386959383959493938[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_1]86877080877780827767827267577273574739384757730357470302475742234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_2]83847080867680837666830366560302564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_2] [DhtmlXQ_comment29]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment29] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_20] 劣着，走成低头卒，无法遮将头。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_20] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_39]黑劣红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_39] [DhtmlXQ_comment2_18] 劣着，为红炮快速出动做杀让出了道路。[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_18] [DhtmlXQ_comment2_31]黑劣红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_31] [DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule] [DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype] [DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype] [/DhtmlXQ]

自由的风 · 发表于 2014-7-31 12:17:14

回复7#yjr123：黑有两种最王强的着法，第4步，黑前卒平8，是最顽强的着法之一。[/quote] 第4步前卒平8正确，和棋。

聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 17:36:56

刪除底卒是否紅勝局

聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 17:45:39

無底卒局殺法

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自由的风 · 发表于 2014-7-31 17:59:47

聨吟客发表于 2014-7-31 17:45
無底卒局殺法

删去底卒太简单了，第8回合帅六退一速胜

自由的风 · 发表于 2014-7-31 18:00:40

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 18:53:37

嗯
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yjr123 · 发表于 2014-7-31 19:15:01

作者认为你们为黑方走出了最顽强的应法，但并没有否定此局的成立，说不定是有妙着呢！怎么你们就已经开始改局，改到你们自己可以随便走出取胜着法为止。

聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 19:22:40

呵呵呵

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 19:28:30

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聨吟客 · 发表于 2014-7-31 19:40:01

19 樓12回合不須進帥,平砲即可

yjr123 · 发表于 2014-7-31 20:01:00

第4回合前卒平8破解了，接下来破解卒3平2。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-7-31 20:01:02

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yjr123 · 发表于 2014-7-31 20:10:20

此兵随时可走，不存在单双步。

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象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-8-1 01:10:57

yjr123 发表于 2014-7-31 20:10
此兵随时可走，不存在单双步。

还不是最佳着法。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-8-1 11:34:39

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[DhtmlXQ_move_3_28_2]4636073736373837[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_28_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_16_3]56664839293938396656393856464939465639095646090746560702564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_16_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_4]83847080867680837666830366560302564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_29_5]393856464939465639095646090746560702564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_29_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]红胜定。红方有多种途径取胜，此变不可取。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_6]46473938[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_6]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32619[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123 · 发表于 2014-8-1 11:48:08

16回合黑卒5进1才是正变

[DhtmlXQ]
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[DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_3_28_2]4636073736373837[/DhtmlXQ_move_3_28_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_1_16_3]56664839293938396656393856464939465639095646090746560702564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_1_16_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_4]83847080867680837666830366560302564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_12_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_29_5]393856464939465639095646090746560702564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_29_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment33]红胜定。红方有多种途径取胜，此变不可取。[/DhtmlXQ_comment33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_6]46560802564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_32_6]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32619%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-8-1 12:03:54

yjr123 发表于 2014-8-1 11:48
16回合黑卒5进1才是正变

进卒可以延缓两个回合，但是红方取胜难度降低了，既可以按楼上的着法取胜，也可以打死卒胜，所以17回合已经胜定，我认为不可取。

高原红 · 发表于 2014-8-1 12:04:01

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[DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]红胜定。红方有多种途径取胜，此变不可取。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_33]
[DhtmlXQ_move_7_32_6]46473938[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_32_6]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_7]8382192970808676808876668889665689495666483929393839665649485646480846560802564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_7]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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迟暮寒士 · 发表于 2014-8-2 04:45:21

本帖最后由迟暮寒士于 2014-8-2 09:34 编辑

   感谢yjr123、平原一刀、聨吟客、象棋法官、自由的风、高原红各位良师益友对本局的讨论。
   第4步黑前卒平8变着，各位所列着法与我所拟着法完全一致，红18步胜。
   第4步黑卒3平2变着，有所出入。各位着法一致，都是红炮二平一打卒过早，致使红方20余步取胜。红方应该先走士五退四，事先做好打3路底卒的准备，结果也是18步取胜。
   以下是我所拟着法，如有不当，敬请指正：
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]C-原地待命（18±）[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
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[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
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[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9963994837999999998087213262718540126050305299415139612977838699[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_24_1]463638483637393837384838[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_24_1]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_2]6656492956462927465627175646394846561712564642234133231133211232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_2]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_3]291938391929492956462928465628185646180846560802564642234133231133210232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_3]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_13_4]4859665679295646293946563738564638374656391956461939465637385646[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_13_4]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_5]2919373819294859878885842919848319298382291970808676808876668889665689195646191746561712564642234133231133211232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_8_5]
[DhtmlXQ_comment35]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment35]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_27]注意：不可走帅五退一。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_27]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_29]红速胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_29]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_33]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_33]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_13]急于退士打卒，劣着。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_13]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_21] 如果再误走士四进五，就是劣上加劣了，黑接走卒5平4遮将头，红输棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_28] 和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_28]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_12] 黑方走前卒进1，是考虑到红炮此后打杀该9路卒之后，因有红帅挡路，红炮不能尽快调到左侧做杀。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_12]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_14] 如果黑后卒进1吃兵，这就为红袍快速调到左侧做杀让出了道路。黑速败。|| 具体着法：后卒进1，炮二平一，中卒平8，炮一退三（注意：如果模仿主着误走炮一退八打卒，因为之后着法与主着相比，黑方有边卒走闲棋，红方非但不赢，反而输棋）卒8平7，炮一平九……红速胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_17] 这是一步等着，等黑方卒3平2。这样可以比直接走炮三平二快一步取胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_17]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_18] 如果走前卒平8，红炮二退八打卒，之后的着法与主着基本相同，红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_18]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_35]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_35]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
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[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-8-2 20:02:37

迟暮寒士发表于 2014-8-2 04:45
感谢yjr123、平原一刀、聨吟客、象棋法官、自由的风、高原红各位良师益友对本局的讨论。
第 ...

王老弟总结的好，磨刀不误砍柴工，看似不紧不慢的退士却是最讲效率的着法。

第4步前卒平8的变着是17步胜。

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