逐鹿江湖实用残局研究

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 00:05:31

[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲 [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event] [DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date] [DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place] [DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round] [DhtmlXQ_table][/DhtmlXQ_table] [DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red] [DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam] [DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black] [DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam] [DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark] [DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693454414299999936706450305299993799993944474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]423236345434373432313431413130316867565767574757585752416964313064447051574730404748403044545170543430404838705134545170542441302421706221205041384862432023433123333112333212203222200122624050626050516063515063535040485801225363415063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule] [DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype] [DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype] [/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 00:09:48

可能是和局： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693454414299999936706450305299993799993944474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲 [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]4232363454343734323134314131303168675657675747575857705169645132[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]52416964313064447051574730404748403044545170543430404838705134545170542441302421706221205041384862432023433123333112333212203222200122624050626050516063515063535040485801225363415063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1] [/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 00:11:13

8回合后： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999999957999999649999999999999999709950304199999999993944994999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲 [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 00:11:37

这两个残局很值得玩味

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 08:46:28

[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693353414299999936706450305299993799993943474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲(法官改图) [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 13:45:23

续走2楼 [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693454414299999936706450305299993799993944474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲 [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]423236345434373432313431413130316867565767574757585770516964513264653130650552410500303157474445000532530503533247374535[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1]52416964313064447051574730404748403044545170543430404838705134545170542441302421706221205041384862432023433123333112333212203222200122624050626050516063515063535040485801225363415063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_1] [/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-3 23:01:44

[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693353414299999936706450305299993799993943474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲(法官改图) [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]42323633533337333231333141313031686756576757475758575241696431306463434463437051434451705747705147485170443430404838705134545170542441302421706221205041384862432023433123333110336340506353504048581031533331103363415063611022616030416063413063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_44_1]3112333212203222200122624050626050516063515063535040485801225363415063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_44_1] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_44]有棋规问题。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_44] [DhtmlXQ_comment0]逐鹿江湖原局不成立，是和局。为了维持朱鹤洲先生的创作意图，将中卒后退一步。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0] [/DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693353414299999936826450305299993799993943474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲(象棋法官改图) [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]4232363353333733323133314131303168675657675747575857524169643130643430403433826333436351435351705747403047483040533370513331517048387062312141302120504120236254236354353848355648475635475741506383351483231402235350415383415083803041808202238222234457474030222030312024445624344132343656643666644566464564474864834838504146268362262041522021313021515241516162746141[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_comment91]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment91] [/DhtmlXQ]

zhaodi · 发表于 2014-9-3 23:46:53

是和棋，我认为改图也是和棋。马双士双底卒可和。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-4 10:03:49

yjr123 · 发表于 2014-9-4 10:37:43

此实用残局双方都很难下，原着法肯定存在不少错漏，黑方应着不够顽强，红方也错失很多速胜良机。
如主变24回合红方就可以走车七平八逼黑方长捉而简单获胜。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-4 11:28:08

此实用残局双方都很难下，原着法肯定存在不少错漏，黑方应着不够顽强，红方也错失很多速胜良机。如主变24 ...[/quote] 21回合应按照注3走马4退2

yjr123 · 发表于 2014-9-4 11:45:32

按注解（同主着）似乎接不上主变

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-4 14:31:45

按注解（同主着）似乎接不上主变[/quote] 可能是这样： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693454414299999936706450305299993799993944474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲 [/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]4232363454343734323134314131303168675657675747575857524169643130644470515747304047484030445451705434304048387051345451705424413024217062212050413848624320234331233331103363405063535040485810315333311033634150636110226160304160634130[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_42_1]3112333212203222200122624050626050516063515063535040485801225363415063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_42_1][DhtmlXQ_comment57]原注下同主着。这里和主着接不上，估计是少走了一步。[/DhtmlXQ_comment57][DhtmlXQ_comment58]这样就接上了。下面接主着30回合[/DhtmlXQ_comment58] [/DhtmlXQ]

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-4 15:29:31

是和棋，我认为改图也是和棋。马双士双底卒可和。[/quote] 有具体着法吗？我觉得这个残局既不好胜，也不好和。

zhaodi · 发表于 2014-9-5 13:13:22

黑方按照第2楼的着法，在第七回合，黑走马8进6，即可和棋。

667 · 发表于 2014-9-5 14:43:59

象棋法官发表于 2014-9-4 10:03

9楼是哪本书？

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-5 14:55:56

名家象棋排局精选175局王前民崔鸿传
http://book.ln.chaoxing.com/ebook/detail_11597095.html

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-5 15:01:08

据说《象棋排局例典》里也有这一局。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-5 15:19:18

zhaodi 发表于 2014-9-5 13:13
黑方按照第2楼的着法，在第七回合，黑走马8进6，即可和棋。

接下来怎么走？中卒是保不住的。
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[DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲(法官改图) [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]42323633533337333231333141313031686756576757475758577051696451326404524157473130040030314737[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_move_2_44_1]3112333212203222200122624050626050516063515063535040485801225363415063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_2_44_1]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_44]有棋规问题。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]逐鹿江湖原局不成立，是和局。为了维持朱鹤洲先生的创作意图，将中卒后退一步。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_2]5241696431306463434463437051434451705747705147485170443430404838705134545170542441302421706221205041384862432023433123333110336340506353504048581031533331103363415063611022616030416063413063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_2]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32806%26page%3D1%26extra%3D[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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zhaodi · 发表于 2014-9-5 22:51:41

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]6899999958999999693353414299999936706450305299993799993943474956[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖  朱鹤洲(法官改图) [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]42323633533337333231333141313031686756576757475758577051696451326404524157474344473731300444495937383949441459691410303110196959190931300900303100093130[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment1_44]有棋规问题。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]逐鹿江湖原局不成立，是和局。为了维持朱鹤洲先生的创作意图，将中卒后退一步。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_2]5241696431306463434463437051434451705747705147485170443430404838705134545170542441302421706221205041384862432023433123333110336340506353504048581031533331103363415063611022616030416063413063232210232110022151504151614150616030415848022360622344620240300200303100044456484731300400303100065664063641324748504136266445262131302120303148384553202353342324345324545372544472533837536544246553245453725444725344435374432374622321313021203031373841502021313021515041516162546141[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_14_2]
[DhtmlXQ_comment38]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment38]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32806%26page%3D1%23pid234873[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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★星海★ · 发表于 2014-9-5 22:59:06

zhaodi 发表于 2014-9-5 22:51

12回合车九进四再帅六退一怎样？

★星海★ · 发表于 2014-9-5 23:07:37

看来还是和局

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-5 23:20:23

看来改中卒的位置不成立，需要改一下底卒或者马的位置。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-6 18:09:34

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[DhtmlXQ_title]逐鹿江湖朱鹤洲(法官改图) [/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
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象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-7 11:33:13

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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
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柒匹狼 · 发表于 2014-9-7 13:16:53

本帖最后由柒匹狼于 2014-9-7 13:17 编辑

从理论上推测马双士双底卒是无法求和的，因为双底卒的能动效应和应着能力只能起到一步闲棋的作用。虽然可以起到一步闲棋的作用，可是由于单车必胜马双士。当黑用底卒应了一步闲之后随之而来的弱点也来了，那就是在以后红方进攻马双士的过程中。红方可以在关键时候或者僵持状态，用车或者帅捉一步卒进行偷步抢先。势必使得黑方必须连卒，这就使得红方可以再次组织进攻马双士。黑要谋和从推测来看非常的困难，但有没有特定的可和局面尚不好说。个人看法，不一定对。

象棋法官 · 发表于 2014-9-7 15:37:51

柒匹狼发表于 2014-9-7 13:16
从理论上推测马双士双底卒是无法求和的，因为双底卒的能动效应和应着能力只能起到一步闲棋的作用。 ...

特定可和局面有的，朱鹤洲注解里面就提到过，20楼zhaodi也走出了。
所以红方还是要小心的。

菜鸟来玩 · 发表于 2014-9-16 23:25:04

本帖最后由菜鸟来玩于 2014-9-16 23:33 编辑

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