华工象棋论坛

标题: 疲马愁千里 [打印本页]

作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-6 22:59
标题: 疲马愁千里
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[DhtmlXQ_title]疲马愁千里红先胜赵殿忠拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
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最新研究成果见27楼（20130713-13:10）。

作者: 炎与夜 时间: 2013-7-9 06:51
不知赵兄让鄙人擦亮眼睛观看之局进展怎么样了，呵呵

作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-9 18:02

进展了三十二分之一，红棋已经走了一步：帅五进一！（据我分析，要想赢棋，唯此一步！）

作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-9 23:02
答案
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[DhtmlXQ_adddate]2013-7-9 0:37:00[/DhtmlXQ_adddate]
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[DhtmlXQ_title]疲马愁千里红先胜赵殿忠拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_2]3413628246348283133283333453072930313343313049395372437372517353304053524050528250408242403039383031425231415232[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_2]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_length]142[/DhtmlXQ_length]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]11[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
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[DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局要吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
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欢迎探讨指正！

作者: 1963 时间: 2013-7-9 23:11
赵老师，第24回合红帅平六不是就完事了吗？

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-10 00:17
[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]7299999939990799409999999999999952468299519999797099999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_pver]130606[/DhtmlXQ_pver] [DhtmlXQ_adddate]2013-7-9 0:37:00[/DhtmlXQ_adddate] [DhtmlXQ_editdate]2013-7-9 0:50:00[/DhtmlXQ_editdate] [DhtmlXQ_title]疲马愁千里红先胜赵殿忠拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]725251524070795839495837493937183949525170771826775751415727263427673442676246546282414082524030525154465141465449484263414763424737304037344050344450514858514158484131[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_4]413167613130616230316282345382864634863631300725303136373130374734554748303125073130482830312825553425235332233334264939[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_4][DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_1]4151676151506162505162824665828834468848515207295251294765734868735468615152616052516040463449593453476553414030415330365374363151503141748641448678595878665848547344466678465673525652[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_4_22_2]3413628246348283133283333453072930313343313049395372437372517353304053524050528250408242403039383031425231415232[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_22_2] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_length]142[/DhtmlXQ_length] [DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_hits]11[/DhtmlXQ_hits] [DhtmlXQ_sortid]6305480[/DhtmlXQ_sortid] [DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner] [DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63] [DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67] [DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局要吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0] [DhtmlXQ_move_4_47_3]333526473545472645252647494847684838314125454151384868564858325345555677585951525553[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_47_3] [DhtmlXQ_comment18]這樣如何[/DhtmlXQ_comment18] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_19_5]6747465447444131[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_19_5][DhtmlXQ_comment22]這種形勢好像可和\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment22] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-10 00:31
[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]7299999939990799409999999999999952468299519999797099999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_pver]130606[/DhtmlXQ_pver] [DhtmlXQ_adddate]2013-7-9 0:37:00[/DhtmlXQ_adddate] [DhtmlXQ_editdate]2013-7-9 0:50:00[/DhtmlXQ_editdate] [DhtmlXQ_title]疲马愁千里红先胜赵殿忠拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]72525152407079583949583749393718394952517077182677575141072526385737415125473819472946653717[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_4]413167613130616230316282345382864634863631300725303136373130374734554748303125073130482830312825553425235332233334264939[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_4] [DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_1]4151676151506162505162824665828834468848515207295251294765734868735468615152616052516040463449593453476553414030415330365374363151503141748641448678595878665848547344466678465673525652[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_4_22_2]3413628246348283133283333453072930313343313049395372437372517353304053524050528250408242403039383031425231415232[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_22_2] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_length]142[/DhtmlXQ_length] [DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_hits]11[/DhtmlXQ_hits] [DhtmlXQ_sortid]6305480[/DhtmlXQ_sortid] [DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner] [DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63] [DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67] [DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局要吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0] [DhtmlXQ_move_4_47_3]333526473545472645252647494847684838314125454151384868564858325345555677585951525553[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_47_3] [DhtmlXQ_comment6_18]這樣如何[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_18] [DhtmlXQ_move_6_19_5]6747465447444131[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_19_5] [DhtmlXQ_comment6_22]這種形勢好像可和\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_22] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_6]5727263427673442676246546282414082524030525154465141465449484263414763424737304037344050344450514858514158484131[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_6][DhtmlXQ_comment15]應這樣\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment15][DhtmlXQ_comment23]紅勝定[/DhtmlXQ_comment23] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_23_7]37676544675744524959[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_23_7][DhtmlXQ_comment7_27]紅勝定[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_27][DhtmlXQ_comment7_23]也可[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_23] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_8]413157373141373626383638[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_8][DhtmlXQ_comment8_21]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_21] [DhtmlXQ_move_7_24_9]654667575141574719274727[/DhtmlXQ_move_7_24_9][DhtmlXQ_comment9_29]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_29] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_10]1927375751415727[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_22_10][DhtmlXQ_comment10_25]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_25] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-10 09:52

[DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]7299999939990799409999999999999952468299519999797099999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_pver]130606[/DhtmlXQ_pver] [DhtmlXQ_adddate]2013-7-9 0:37:00[/DhtmlXQ_adddate] [DhtmlXQ_editdate]2013-7-9 0:50:00[/DhtmlXQ_editdate] [DhtmlXQ_title]疲马愁千里红先胜赵殿忠拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]7252515240707958394958374939371839495251707718267757514107252638573741514948826437575141574764424838[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_4]413167613130616230316282345382864634863631300725303136373130374734554748303125073130482830312825553425235332233334264939[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_4] [DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_1]4151676151506162505162824665828834468848515207295251294765734868735468615152616052516040463449593453476553414030415330365374363151503141748641448678595878665848547344466678465673525652[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_18_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_4_22_2]3413628246348283133283333453072930313343313049395372437372517353304053524050528250408242403039383031425231415232[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_22_2] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_length]142[/DhtmlXQ_length] [DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open] [DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_hits]11[/DhtmlXQ_hits] [DhtmlXQ_sortid]6305480[/DhtmlXQ_sortid] [DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner] [DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63] [DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67] [DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局要吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0] [DhtmlXQ_move_4_47_3]333526473545472645252647494847684838314125454151384868564858325345555677585951525553[/DhtmlXQ_move_4_47_3] [DhtmlXQ_comment6_18]這樣如何[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_18] [DhtmlXQ_move_6_19_5]6747465447444131[/DhtmlXQ_move_6_19_5] [DhtmlXQ_comment6_22]這種形勢好像可和\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_22] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_6]5727263427673442676246546282414082524030525154465141465449484263414763424737304037344050344450514858514158484131[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_6] [DhtmlXQ_comment15]應這樣\u003F[/DhtmlXQ_comment15] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_8]413157373141373626383638[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_8] [DhtmlXQ_comment8_21]紅勝[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_21] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_14]381937575141574719274727[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_14] [/DhtmlXQ]

作者: yjr123 时间: 2013-7-10 09:54
软件显示第4回合黑方马4进2后红胜，应改为将6退1.

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-10 10:03
另外,2回合馬8退7變化如何?4回合帥五進一又如何?感覺變化很多

作者: 会心斋 时间: 2013-7-10 12:35
以目前的残局研究成果，是不是可以认为“车相例胜双马（无其他子）”？我印象中是这样。（不考虑车相被马直接吃掉的特殊情况）也就说，对这局棋来说，红方只要能在消灭黑方双车以后，再消灭黑象（同时避免红车被黑马抽吃）即可？

作者: yjr123 时间: 2013-7-10 13:46

会心斋发表于 2013-7-10 12:35
以目前的残局研究成果，是不是可以认为“车相例胜双马（无其他子）”？我印象中是这样。（不考虑车相被马直 ...

似乎是这样！

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-10 13:55
喔,車相必勝雙馬嗎?

作者: yjr123 时间: 2013-7-10 14:11

聨吟客发表于 2013-7-10 10:03
另外,2回合馬8退7變化如何?4回合帥五進一又如何?感覺變化很多

作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-10 17:58
5楼和9楼提出的问题准确！谢谢！
本局红胜无疑，余兄贴出的链接就是此局创作的依据。5楼提出的帅五平六问题精确！发现了PAI残局库中的一个BUG。我在创作时，过于相信软件，就像“孤鸿念五湖”局中，能直接杀的其，却要先考虑吃子一样（667兄指出的）
余兄9楼指出的问题也准确，如先跳马进2将军，红可不吃象而胜！
此局与“孤鸿念五湖”局，是我最近研究残局库做的局，是否是创作（还是抄袭残局库）请大家评定吧！我个人认为，排局的这些局面早就在那里了，只是等待有人经过排列组合发现而已。不管怎样，有一些有趣的局让大家解，就是好事。

题目出自李绅之诗，他有首脍炙人口的《悯农》
锄禾日当午，汗滴禾下土。谁知盘中餐，粒粒皆辛苦.

这两句出自《趋翰苑遭诬构四十六韵》
　　李绅
　　九五当乾德，三千应瑞符。纂尧昌圣历，宗禹盛丕图。
　　画象垂新令，消兵易旧谟。选贤方去智，招谏忽升愚。
　　大乐调元气，神功运化炉。脱鳞超沆瀣，翻翼集蓬壶。
　　捧日恩光别，抽毫顾问殊。凤形怜采笔，龙颔借骊珠。
　　掷地声名寡，摩天羽翮孤。洁身酬雨露，利口扇谗谀。
　　碧海同宸眷，鸿毛比贱躯。辨疑分黑白，举直牴朋徒。
　　庭兽方呈角，阶蓂始效莩。日倾乌掩魄，星落斗摧枢。
　　坠剑悲乔岳，号弓泣鼎湖。乱群逢害马，择肉纵狂貙。
　　胆为隳肝竭，心因沥血枯。满帆摧骇浪，征棹折危途。
　　燕客书方诈，尧门信未孚。谤兴金就铄，毁极玉生愈。
　　砺吻矜先搏，张罗骋疾驱。地嫌稀魍魉，海恨止番禺。
　　瘴岭冲蛇入，蒸池蹑虺趋。望天收雪涕，看镜揽霜须。
　　草毒人惊剪，茅荒室未诛。火风晴处扇，山鬼雨中呼。
　　穷老乡关远，羁愁骨肉无。鹊灵窥牖户，龟瑞出泥途。
　　烟岛深千瘴，沧波淼四隅。海标传信使，江棹认妻孥。
　　到接三冬暮，来经六月徂。暗滩朝不怒，惊濑夜无虞。
　　俯首安羸业，齐眉慰病夫。涸鱼思雨润，僵燕望雷苏。
　　诏下因颁朔，恩移讵省辜。诳天犹指鹿，依社尚凭狐。
　　度岭瞻牛斗，浮江淬辘轳。未平人睚眦，谁惧鬼揶揄。
　　盆浦潮通楚，匡山地接吴。庾楼清桂满，远寺素莲敷。
　　仿佛皆停马，悲欢尽隙驹。旧交封宿草，衰鬓重生刍。
　　万戟分梁苑，双旌寄鲁儒。駸駸移岁月，冉冉近桑榆。
　　疲马愁千里，孤鸿念五湖。终当赋归去，那更学杨朱。

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-11 07:51
我還是認為原走法9回合改走馬4退5能和(6樓) ,所以 8樓才能紅勝

,至於9樓余兄的意思是紅勝還是和局呢? 又11與12樓的意思是說車相必勝雙馬嗎?那麼如6樓局末形勢紅要如何取勝呢?

作者: yjr123 时间: 2013-7-11 10:19

聨吟客发表于 2013-7-11 07:51
我還是認為原走法9回合改走馬4退5能和(6樓) ,所以 8樓才能紅勝 ,至於9樓余兄的意思是紅勝還是和局呢?
又 ...

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[DhtmlXQ_title]疲马愁千里红先胜赵殿忠拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
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[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]11[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]6305480[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局要吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_3]57272634276741316761313061623031628234538286463486363130072530313637313037473455474830312507313048283031282555342523533223333426333526473545472645252647494847684838314125454151384868564858325345555677585951525553[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_15_3][DhtmlXQ_comment4_23]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_23]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_4]41315453264553564627563631413634[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_16_4][DhtmlXQ_comment23]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment23]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_5]38260725413158572645573731413747[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_18_5][DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: 会心斋 时间: 2013-7-11 12:45
回16楼： 6楼局末红胜——

作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-11 13:45
回复11楼及余兄和陈兄：
车相不能必胜双马。

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-11 14:06
感謝大家指導,這個課題我還很生疏, 需再努力學習

,那麼雙馬要在什麼位置才能和車相?

作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-11 16:32
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9963999949999971999999999999999999999999529902996199999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雙馬和車象聨吟客拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]4948022448492402[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]排一種雙馬和車象的局,好像僅此一圖能和嗎\u003F(一開始吃子或抽子或兌子的局不算的話)[/DhtmlXQ_comment0][DhtmlXQ_comment4]雙方走閑和[/DhtmlXQ_comment4]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-11 16:41
還有這樣

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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9953999939999961999999999999999999999999429902995199999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雙馬和車象聨吟客拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment9]紅一將一閑和[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
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作者: 聨吟客 时间: 2013-7-11 16:48
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9953999939999961999999999999999999999999429902995199999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雙馬和車象聨吟客拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
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[DhtmlXQ_comment13] 互走閑和[/DhtmlXQ_comment13][DhtmlXQ_comment9]紅一將一閑,黑長捉!以下黑變o[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26pid%3D214662%26page%3D1%26extra%3D%23pid214662[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: 会心斋 时间: 2013-7-11 17:19
本帖最后由会心斋于 2013-7-11 19:50 编辑

双马对车象，马方一般较被动。经尝试，确有和势，但和势较少。下面这种连环马是比较有代表性的和势。（实质与楼上差不多，关键在于可有效制止黑将平中）
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[DhtmlXQ_binit]9953999939999972999999999999999999999999509920994399999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]雙馬和車象[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]和[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]张云川[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_7_1]3839[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_7_1][DhtmlXQ_comment1_7]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_7][DhtmlXQ_comment11]和[/DhtmlXQ_comment11]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: 迟暮寒士 时间: 2013-7-12 21:09

炎与夜发表于 2013-7-9 06:51
不知赵兄让鄙人擦亮眼睛观看之局进展怎么样了，呵呵

我已经消失好几天了，今天终于又出现了。
我原还以为你早已消失了，没想到你还在。看来你和这里的人混熟了，打算在这里长期潜水了吧？

作者: 炎与夜 时间: 2013-7-12 21:35

迟暮寒士发表于 2013-7-12 21:09
我已经消失好几天了，今天终于又出现了。
我原还以为你早已消失了，没想到你还在。看来你和这 ...

谢谢王兄的关注！您不也是一样吗，

有空或者没事就来看看。华工、棋中、泓弈都是我常去的网站，没事就逛逛，看看有什么新变化。偶尔就发发帖子、回一回帖，呵呵。

作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-12 22:40
标题: 最新研究成果，不杀象也可胜！
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[DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_17]505125472735384845664765355648496658222358374959514123434131434682646587644287693141463642206947[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_20_17]
[DhtmlXQ_move_12_26_18]8264476934267570505170402645485845665859667859497857495964825958536569876577585977564043573859583826435351415356[/DhtmlXQ_move_12_26_18]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_length]846[/DhtmlXQ_length]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]17[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]6319590[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_11]红迟胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_8]软，造成红速胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_15]也可红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局红必胜，胜途猛一看可以吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保取胜。但黑方不会坐以待毙，光将双马也有很多机会求和。并且黑方不会简单的让红方吃掉黑象。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]红无法攻破黑方防守阵地，和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_11]想吃象。劣着。应进车将军，再退三到唯一点，按主变求胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]！只此这步且这一点可取胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_33]劣败。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_22]劣败。应马4退5可和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_21]保留实力，继续图谋，但黑如无误还是和棋。如黑失误，则车相可巧胜双马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_99]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_21]如这时吃掉黑象，则是和棋！！呵呵，很有趣吧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_39]这时还不能吃黑象，否则还是和棋。这个黑象真的不是那么容易吃。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_39]见残局库[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_63]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_53]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_15]防止黑马3退4，形成和型。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]黑方想形成4、6路连环马的和型，能否实现呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_81]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_81]
[DhtmlXQ_comment155]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment155]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]这时吃掉黑象是红胜棋。要很多回合才胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_54]红无法取胜，和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]和棋之型已形成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]吃掉了黑象，但也让黑有时间组成和型。最终和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_93]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_93]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_20]此路变化着法较短，但陷阱多，黑以象为诱饵，红如吃掉则和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_20][DhtmlXQ_comment17_43]黑马必失，红胜定。此路红着法不吃黑象也胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_43]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26page%3D1%26extra%3D%23pid214760[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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作者: 炎与夜 时间: 2013-7-12 23:01
赵先生创作的这个是实战棋势，这是实战中有可能形成的，故属于棋势、不是排局，虽然不是排局，但仍然能够当成创作。“创作”并不是排局的专利，对于实战（棋势）来说同样适合。

我前段时间开软件看了赵先生创作的这个棋势，变化极为复杂、深奥，由于变化过于复杂、深奥，没有回帖贴出详细的着法，望祁见谅！否则探索下去，无穷无尽的变化不知道要探讨到猴年马月，呵呵。这个棋势的变化要写完，不仅仅是能够写出1本书，而是能够写出很多本书！

作者: 愤怒的小炜 时间: 2013-7-13 00:08
本帖最后由愤怒的小炜于 2013-7-13 08:14 编辑

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探讨，此形4,6马连环，陈松顺的《中国象棋实用残局（增订本）》认为是最佳和型。而红相在此局面下不起拦截作用，故即使黑没有边象也和。
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此形黑双马结成3,4连环控制红帅进中，也可和。
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黑4,5马在中路，红相有拦截作用，故如无黑象则必负。但现在黑多一中象，红似乎难胜（个人观点）。如以上三个例形成立，则此局应该能推导成和。

作者: 愤怒的小炜 时间: 2013-7-13 00:11
本帖最后由愤怒的小炜于 2013-7-13 08:57 编辑

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27楼有马5退7变化，当时看贴不仔细，以为马5退7能和。红车平六给黑的造成困难，再研究下

作者: 愤怒的小炜 时间: 2013-7-13 08:51
本帖最后由愤怒的小炜于 2013-7-13 08:56 编辑

作者: yjr123 时间: 2013-7-13 09:23
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[DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局红必胜，胜途猛一看可以吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保取胜。但黑方不会坐以待毙，光将双马也有很多机会求和。并且黑方不会简单的让红方吃掉黑象。主变最后是未吃黑象而胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]！只此这步且这一点可取胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment15]防止黑马3退4，形成和型。[/DhtmlXQ_comment15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14]黑方想形成4、6路连环马的和型，能否实现呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment26]再选一马退7能守和吗？[/DhtmlXQ_comment26]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
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作者: zhaodi 时间: 2013-7-13 13:18
回复32楼，提出的变化内容已加入！还是红胜。另，29楼炜兄的3个例图，皆是和棋，但惟独此局是红胜。
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[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]17[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
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[DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_11]红迟胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_8]软，造成红速胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_15]也可红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局红必胜，胜途猛一看可以吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保取胜。但黑方不会坐以待毙，光将双马也有很多机会求和。并且黑方不会简单的让红方吃掉黑象。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]红无法攻破黑方防守阵地，和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_11]想吃象。劣着。应进车将军，再退三到唯一点，按主变求胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]！只此这步且这一点可取胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_33]劣败。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_22]劣败。应马4退5可和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_21]保留实力，继续图谋，但黑如无误还是和棋。如黑失误，则车相可巧胜双马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_99]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_21]如这时吃掉黑象，则是和棋！！呵呵，很有趣吧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_39]这时还不能吃黑象，否则还是和棋。这个黑象真的不是那么容易吃。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_39]见残局库[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_63]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_53]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_15]防止黑马3退4，形成和型。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]黑方想形成4、6路连环马的和型，能否实现呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_81]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_81]
[DhtmlXQ_comment155]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment155]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]这时吃掉黑象是红胜棋。要很多回合才胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_54]红无法取胜，和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]和棋之型已形成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]吃掉了黑象，但也让黑有时间组成和型。最终和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_93]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_93]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_20]此路变化着法较短，但陷阱多，黑以象为诱饵，红如吃掉则和。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_43]黑马必失，红胜定。此路红着法不吃黑象也胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_43]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D31145%26page%3D1%23pid214760[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
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作者: yjr123 时间: 2016-6-25 10:44
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[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_length]846[/DhtmlXQ_length]
[DhtmlXQ_open]A00 非常见开局[/DhtmlXQ_open]
[DhtmlXQ_result]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]赵殿忠[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_hits]17[/DhtmlXQ_hits]
[DhtmlXQ_sortid]6319590[/DhtmlXQ_sortid]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_oldowner]zhaodi[/DhtmlXQ_oldowner]
[DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment2_49]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_67]
[DhtmlXQ_comment3_11]红迟胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment3_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_8]软，造成红速胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment5_25]
[DhtmlXQ_comment4_15]也可红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment4_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]此局红必胜，胜途猛一看可以吃掉黑象，然后使用等招、占位、蹩马腿等，使黑马无法连环自保取胜。但黑方不会坐以待毙，光将双马也有很多机会求和。并且黑方不会简单的让红方吃掉黑象。[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]红无法攻破黑方防守阵地，和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_44]
[DhtmlXQ_comment6_11]想吃象。劣着。应进车将军，再退三到唯一点，按主变求胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment6_11]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9]！只此这步且这一点可取胜！[/DhtmlXQ_comment9]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_33]劣败。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_33]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]黑胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment8_38]
[DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment7_56]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_22]劣败。应马4退5可和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_22]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_21]保留实力，继续图谋，但黑如无误还是和棋。如黑失误，则车相可巧胜双马。[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment9_99]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment9_99]
[DhtmlXQ_comment21]如这时吃掉黑象，则是和棋！！呵呵，很有趣吧。[/DhtmlXQ_comment21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_39]这时还不能吃黑象，否则还是和棋。这个黑象真的不是那么容易吃。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment11_39]见残局库[/DhtmlXQ_comment11_39]
[DhtmlXQ_comment13_63]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment13_63]
[DhtmlXQ_comment18_53]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment18_53]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_15]防止黑马3退4，形成和型。[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_15]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]黑方想形成4、6路连环马的和型，能否实现呢？[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_14]
[DhtmlXQ_comment16_81]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment16_81]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_155]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_155]
[DhtmlXQ_comment17_20]这时吃掉黑象是红胜棋。要很多回合才胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment17_20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_54]红无法取胜，和棋[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_54]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]和棋之型已形成。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_30]
[DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]吃掉了黑象，但也让黑有时间组成和型。最终和棋。[/DhtmlXQ_comment10_21]
[DhtmlXQ_comment12_93]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment12_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment14_93]红胜定[/DhtmlXQ_comment14_93]
[DhtmlXQ_comment19_43]黑马必失，红胜定。此路红着法不吃黑象也胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment19_43]
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[DhtmlXQ_move_19_39_11]4642[/DhtmlXQ_move_19_39_11]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_19]6658222358374959514123434131434682646587644287693141463642206947[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_19][DhtmlXQ_comment28]正解！[/DhtmlXQ_comment28][DhtmlXQ_comment30]红胜还很遥远[/DhtmlXQ_comment30][DhtmlXQ_comment20]此路变化着法较短，但陷阱多，黑以象为诱饵，红如吃掉则和。||||||YJR注：正解[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
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