排局研究------一则双炮宽紧杀局的研讨

迟暮寒士

看了不少双炮胜局，我也综合吸取某些局的着法，编拟一局双炮宽紧胜排局，着法和局面还未完全确定，是否正确，有待棋友们给予审查。 局面和着法如下： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event] [DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date] [DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place] [DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round] [DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red] [DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam] [DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black] [DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam] [DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark] [DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694839578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]19116163090163333949332369472324876924234859232457482423010523530565535565675515675715554725555469475456250756544725545649395654572721311121543439493433275733534939535539385553383753553747555348375354594854535759535459395444475744243931[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_comment59]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment59] [DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule] [DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype] [DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype] [/DhtmlXQ]

zhaodi

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999993958489999994018999999999999999952515099414999319999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]卧虎藏龙 朱小坚拟局[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_author]zqhuang[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_remark]zqhuang[/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_type]江湖排局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_group]散局[/DhtmlXQ_group]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]181149794000797858597879595879760001765648575636394836355859353659493635485935455748453511213536010736260757265649395655393855563837565537475556483756555948555657595655593955454757455557475545475745253931[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment0]——双炮巧胜局。||着法：红先胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment0]
[DhtmlXQ_comment51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.ok667.net/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.ok667.net/zqhuang/showlist.php%3F%26plist%3Dy%26rp%3D0%26rc%3D2%26rn%3D0%26rr%3D0%26page%3D3%26id%3D10325[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

邢春波

算不上创作，是提高局。

迟暮寒士

算不上创作，是提高局。[/quote] 之前看到过两局，一局是 ”藏龙卧虎“ ，一局是”无名局（红有双相） “ ，我试想把这两局合并，拟一综合提高局，包含两局的的主要着法。就是不知这个提高局是否成立？

yjr123

有这个变化

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694839578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]191161630901633339493323694723248769242348592324574824230105235305655355656755156757155547255554694754562507565447255456493956545727543439493431[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment1_59]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_59]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_move_0_34_1]21311121543439493433275733534939535539385553383753553747555348375354594854535759535459395444475744243931[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_34_1]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32547%23lastpost[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

迟暮寒士

有这个变化[/quote] 余老师一出手，我就知道有问题了。

邢春波

余老师一出手，我就知道有问题了。[/quote] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694839578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]191161630901633339493331[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_59]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_59] [DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_6_1]332369472324876924234859232457482423010523530565535565675515675715554725555469475456250756544725545649395654572721311121543439493433275733534939535539385553383753553747555348375354594854535759535459395444475744243931[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_6_1][DhtmlXQ_comment6]||||||这样更简明[/DhtmlXQ_comment6] [/DhtmlXQ]

汉中棋迷

1. [DhtmlXQ]
2. [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
3. [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
4. [DhtmlXQ_title]《棋艺》2013年第12期有奖征答棋局--鸳鸯戏水（红先胜）余运生[/DhtmlXQ_title]
5. [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999653747488799991415999999999982419950515299999931999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
6. [DhtmlXQ_movelist]141182841555845455573121485954563748565547375556373856553839555687695655654755564725565569475556472956552907555639495654572721311121545627575655493955563938565538375556374756554837555659485655575955545939[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
7. [DhtmlXQ_comment51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment51]
8. [/DhtmlXQ]

复制代码

邢春波

[/quote] [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999653747488799991415999999999982419950515299999931999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_title]《棋艺》2013年第12期有奖征答棋局--鸳鸯戏水（红先胜）余运生[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_movelist]14118284155584545557312148595456374856554737555637385655383955568769565565475556472556556947555647295655290755543949545657275626[/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_comment1_51]红胜。[/DhtmlXQ_comment1_51] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1]555639495654572721311121545627575655493955563938565538375556374756554837555659485655575955545939[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_28_1] [DhtmlXQ_move_0_29_2]5727543439493431[/DhtmlXQ_move_0_29_2] [/DhtmlXQ]

yjr123

改成这样

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694849578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32547%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

邢春波

改成这样[/quote] 正在研究，好像也难胜，着法同9楼，考虑是否有别的方法取胜。

迟暮寒士

改成这样[/quote] 红方无法通过改变摆子的位置来解决单双步的问题，因为黑车可以随时自行调整单双步，以阻挡红炮用红相做炮架打黑炮。 如果在着法上实在解决不了的话，只有考虑加一底兵，用以走等着。如下面一种方案所示： [DhtmlXQ] [DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver] [DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init] [DhtmlXQ_title]无标题[/DhtmlXQ_title] [DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event] [DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date] [DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place] [DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round] [DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red] [DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam] [DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black] [DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam] [DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating] [DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time] [DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result] [DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark] [DhtmlXQ_author][/DhtmlXQ_author] [DhtmlXQ_binit]9999693757488799991838019999999988419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit] [DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist] [DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type] [DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule] [DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype] [DhtmlXQ_owner][/DhtmlXQ_owner] [DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum] [DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype] [/DhtmlXQ]

邢春波

红方无法通过改变摆子的位置来解决单双步的问题，因为黑车可以随时自行调整单双步，以阻挡红炮用红相 ...[/quote] 一枚相在左边就可胜。

迟暮寒士

[/quote] 回复8#汉中棋迷，鸳鸯戏水局： 就是这一局，以前在百度看到过，没有着法，正想去问一问，哪位棋友知道红方取胜的着法，

迟暮寒士

邢春波 发表于 2014-6-25 20:21
一枚相在左边就可胜。

把一枚相摆在左面，红可先走成左连环相，然后退九路炮打黑炮之后 ，把九路炮调到四路。

我预计的提高局，是先把九路炮调到四路，再走连环相，打黑炮。

邢春波

可以改成这样
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999474849578799990515999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist][/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32547[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

汉中棋迷

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-6-25 20:21
回复8#汉中棋迷，鸳鸯戏水局：

就是这一局，以前在百度看到过，没有着法，正想去问一问，哪位棋友知道 ...

你是否说的此贴？http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2258622 ... mp;cid=#31298491601

邢春波

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-6-25 20:04
红方无法通过改变摆子的位置来解决单双步的问题，因为黑车可以随时自行调整单双步，以阻挡红炮用红相 ...

10楼余老师的改图可以取胜。

迟暮寒士

汉中棋迷 发表于 2014-6-25 21:19
你是否说的此贴？http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2258622807?pid=31298491601&cid=#31298491601

是这个帖，我当时解的的着法和你在8#给出的着法基本一样，当做红胜。

迟暮寒士

邢春波 发表于 2014-6-25 21:48
10楼余老师的改图可以取胜。

红方是不是利用了 ”禁止长捉“ 的棋规，在逼迫黑方走停着的时候，把相调到左侧，从而形成你在13#提到的局面。
着法如下：（10#余老师改局）
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_event][/DhtmlXQ_event]
[DhtmlXQ_date][/DhtmlXQ_date]
[DhtmlXQ_place][/DhtmlXQ_place]
[DhtmlXQ_round][/DhtmlXQ_round]
[DhtmlXQ_red][/DhtmlXQ_red]
[DhtmlXQ_redteam][/DhtmlXQ_redteam]
[DhtmlXQ_redrating][/DhtmlXQ_redrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_black][/DhtmlXQ_black]
[DhtmlXQ_blackteam][/DhtmlXQ_blackteam]
[DhtmlXQ_blackrating][/DhtmlXQ_blackrating]
[DhtmlXQ_blacktime][/DhtmlXQ_time]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_remark][/DhtmlXQ_remark]
[DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694849578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]191161630904631304541353540453330454335354345333345433535434531334541353543453236947231334541353543453238765233334543353543453234959231334541353543453235958233334543353543453234729232434332423333423133454135354345323654723333454335354345323290723133454135354345323472523333454335354345373343673763634765634045653040153235859232459492423485923245748242301062313065613535626213111215356262756262757265649395654393854563837565437475456483756545948545657595654593954243931[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_comment8]黑要退车垫车。[/DhtmlXQ_comment8]
[DhtmlXQ_comment20]黑不能长捉。[/DhtmlXQ_comment20]
[DhtmlXQ_comment117]红胜[/DhtmlXQ_comment117]
[DhtmlXQ_type]摆谱中残局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_timerule][/DhtmlXQ_timerule]
[DhtmlXQ_endtype][/DhtmlXQ_endtype]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_gametype][/DhtmlXQ_gametype]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.ccbridge.net[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

邢春波

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-6-26 00:24
红方是不是利用了 ”禁止长捉“ 的棋规，在逼迫黑方走停着的时候，把相调到左侧，从而形成你在13#提到的局 ...

着法不精确
[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694849578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]19116164090164244839242757482723694723228769222401052414055514545585546448596414855514545585542447292414855514545585545585835553838553236947231385551353550553030555035355055323050123242907242347252324394824230106231306561353562621311121535626275654275754554939555639385653383753543747545648375655594855545759545359395343475743233931[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32547[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

迟暮寒士

邢春波 发表于 2014-6-26 05:43
着法不精确

第2步红炮九进八确实较好，之后再调整士相，免除了黑车长捉的麻烦。

第9步黑改走车6平4如何，以后黑方每次都把车停在4路或3路。

yjr123

[DhtmlXQ]
[DhtmlXQ_ver]www_dpxq_com[/DhtmlXQ_ver]
[DhtmlXQ_init]500,350[/DhtmlXQ_init]
[DhtmlXQ_binit]9999694849578799990919999999999961419950515299999921999999999999[/DhtmlXQ_binit]
[DhtmlXQ_title]Cp-双炮宽紧胜局-02（30±）【王甸冰拟局】[/DhtmlXQ_title]
[DhtmlXQ_result]未知[/DhtmlXQ_result]
[DhtmlXQ_author]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_author]
[DhtmlXQ_type]实战全局/开局[/DhtmlXQ_type]
[DhtmlXQ_owner]王甸冰[/DhtmlXQ_owner]
[DhtmlXQ_firstnum]0[/DhtmlXQ_firstnum]
[DhtmlXQ_movelist]191161640901642469472423876923244859242357482324010324230304233304543353543453234725233334543353543453236947233334543353543453234729233334543353543453543433545529075553333753563757565457272131112154442757445449395453393853543837545537475556483756555948555457595456593956363936[/DhtmlXQ_movelist]
[DhtmlXQ_refer]http%3A//www.hgchess.com/%0D%0Ahttp%3A//www.hgchess.com/bbs/forum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D32547%26extra%3Dpage%253D1[/DhtmlXQ_refer]
[DhtmlXQ_generator]www.dpxq.com[/DhtmlXQ_generator]
[/DhtmlXQ]

迟暮寒士

yjr123 发表于 2014-6-26 09:03

余老师的着法应该是精确合理的。

迟暮寒士

yjr123 发表于 2014-6-26 09:03

给23#添加三个回合着法：（第22-24步）
21 相七进九  车6进1
   （原着是车6退2捉炮，现改走车6进1等一步）
22 炮六退一  ……
   （红方炮六退一也等一步，若直接炮六退四，则车6平4，和棋）   （红也可炮六平九 车6退3 炮九进二 车6平3 炮九退五，以下与主着归同）
23 车6平4  炮六平四
24 车4平6  炮四平六
   （以下与23#着法归同）
25 车6退3  炮六退三
26 车6进3  炮六平四
27 ……

桑莫喜

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-6-26 00:24
红方是不是利用了 ”禁止长捉“ 的棋规，在逼迫黑方走停着的时候，把相调到左侧，从而形成你在13#提到的局 ...

   王先生,黑加一角卒,是否可行.                                             [DhtmlXQ]
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yjr123

迟暮寒士 发表于 2014-6-26 10:49
给23#添加三个回合着法：（第22-24步）
21 相七进九  车6进1
   （原着是车6退2捉炮，现改走车6进1等一 ...

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迟暮寒士

yjr123 发表于 2014-6-26 19:30

       演示了一下，第21步黑走车6进1等着，不够顽强，在此后的第24步，黑走相七退五可速胜（33步胜）。这是我没发现的，我还以为红应走炮九退五（38步胜），所以误把软着当强着。

迟暮寒士

桑莫喜 发表于 2014-6-26 19:07
王先生,黑加一角卒,是否可行.

      给黑方加一个底卒，黑方有闲棋走，根据23#着法，演变到第23步，黑可走卒应闲，第24步红炮四平七，黑车6平3拦炮，和棋。
      黑有底卒，红要取胜，难度增加。，一是不能完全引用23#着法（炮六平七打炮不能实现），要考虑尝试炮九平七打炮。二是黑底卒不一定只起到走闲棋的作用，很可能会扰乱红后方。
      关于桑莫喜老师这个提议，有待依赖有兴趣的棋友们参与研究。
      

桑莫喜

    这局棋可否这样走                                                       .[DhtmlXQ]
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